Wednesdays With Watson: Faith & Trauma Amy Watson- PTSD Patient-Trauma Survivor

Life After Miscarriage and Parenting Autism, Making God Bigger ft. Author Rachel Scott McDaniel & Crissy Loughridge

• Amy Watson: Trauma Survivor, Hope Carrier, Precious Daughter Of The Most High God • Season 6 • Episode 14

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Navigating the turbulent waters of life's greatest challenges, we often find solace in shared stories of resilience. In the raw echo of personal loss and the relentless pursuit of faith, Rachel Scott McDaniel and Crissy Loughridge join me to bear witness to the power of a God-centered life. We unravel the threads of trauma and triumph, from the depths of miscarriage to the complexities of raising children with special needs, all while embracing the beauty of Psalm 34 as our anchor in the storm.

Our conversation is a tapestry woven with the delicate fibers of mental health, faith, and the indomitable human spirit. It's a heart-to-heart that transcends the spoken word, offering an intimate glimpse into the silent battles fought within the confines of the mind and the unyielding hope that guides us through. Rachel's story is a testament to the miraculous marriage of faith and friendship, and together, we dissect the notion of positive thinking as not just a mental exercise but a deliberate act of trust in God's omnipresent guidance.

As the night yields to dawn, we depart with a chorus of encouragement for every soul tuned in. Rachel's forthcoming novel, "Walking on Hidden Wings," stands as a symbol of hope, a reminder that the narrative of our lives continues to unfold in the most unexpected of ways. Through our candid exchange, we extend a heartfelt invitation to you—our fellow journeyers—to join us in celebrating the joy and faithfulness that abound, even when the path ahead is cloaked in shadows.

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Speaker 1:

I turned in and I spiraled and my thoughts turned dark. And then I'm thinking how in the world am I going to raise this child if I'm struggling even just to make it through the day?

Speaker 2:

Hey everybody and welcome back to Wednesdays with Watson. We are so excited that you have decided to join us for another podcast. Guys, we are barreling into April of 2024. And for any of you people out there who have been listening to the podcast for any amount of time, you know that we have some fun in April because it is all things children, it is Child Abuse Awareness Month and it is also April is National Autism Acceptance Month. And while I did not have my guest on for March, she was not on my bingo card for March, it was more like July. So here we are, y'all, where we are dropping this episode in March. So this we have with us here today. Author Rachel Scott McDaniel, and I will introduce her in just a second, but before that I have a very special treat for you the all-elusive, sometimes co-host, chrissy Lothridge. Chrissy, welcome.

Speaker 3:

I'm so happy to be here.

Speaker 2:

Well, everybody always loves it when you come, and Rachel is a dear friend of both of ours, and so, rachel, it is your turn. Welcome to the Wednesdays with Watson podcast. We have tried to schedule this lots of times but welcome.

Speaker 1:

Thank you. I'm so happy to finally finally be on here with two of my favorite people discussing Jesus and autism and everything in between.

Speaker 2:

Well, thank you for doing that. We are so excited. And so, as Rachel mentioned, she is here to talk to us in our series on trauma and faith, understanding that when I use that word trauma, I mean dark times too. And so Rachel is here today to tell us a little story of her journey with her daughter with autism, and so we're just going to jump right in. So, rachel, like I said, you were going to be on in July and that was when we had we were in summer and Psalms, and at that point you had told me that your favorite Psalm was Psalm 34. And so my first question is to you, before we get into your story, is what about that Psalm is your favorite?

Speaker 1:

Oh, there's just so much packed into those 22 verses. It talks about the goodness of God, experiencing the goodness of God for yourself. But one verse that's always stuck out to me is Psalm 34, verse three, where it says oh, magnify the Lord with me and let us exalt his name together. And that always hit me because God can't be any bigger, like in essence, than he already is. You know, he is not expanding, but he can expand to us, he can. And it also raises the question what are we magnifying in our lives? And I always thought of the story of David and Goliath, the Israelites. They were magnifying. How big Goliath was that. There was no way that they'd be able to conquer such a giant. And David was magnifying God, and there was no way that something could be as big as God to him. And so and for me it just it's all about perspective and at the end of the day, that's what really matters is how we view things, how we see things and making sure God keeping the main thing, the main thing.

Speaker 2:

I love that. It's so cool to hear somebody answer a question like that and know that, like you live your life, like you believe that verse. And, chrissy, wouldn't you agree like especially during some of the things that that we went through late last year that Rachel was always bringing in that new perspective, that different perspective, when we were walking through something as difficult as we were?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely. It really resonates that just keeping the main thing, the main thing and remembering that this life is finite and with an eternity perspective and a God perspective of how he's just, he's big, he's huge and eternity is so vast and we get caught up in the moment in our lives and we forget how big God is and that this life is short and just keeping that perspective, I think, is so important.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And, rachel, really publicly, I would love to say to you like when we were going through all of that late last year, the text messages, your perspective to us was always God is good and pushing us into Jesus, and I can't tell you how badly I know that I needed that and so I love the magnification, especially when the story of our lives can threaten to be, or at least look like it is, so much bigger than that. God Right, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And so the next question I'm asking everybody, and I'm actually going to ask both of you this question. So, chrissy, you'll get a second, so you get a little, a little second to think about it. So this season we're talking about faith and trauma. I want to know why how people hold on to their faith during dark and difficult times. And I'm not saying what you're going to share with us today necessarily falls under what the professionals would call trauma, but probably. But this season is about faith and trauma, and so I am really loving hearing everybody's answer on this next question.

Speaker 1:

What does faith, rachel, mean to you? Well, honestly, but it's also the bedrock of who we are. It's something that we turn to when we encounter something that is bigger than ourselves. You know we are so used to being self-sufficient and in this day and age, you know we're able to do treatments, so many things by ourselves, and but when there's things that you encounter that you don't have an answer for or you don't have the resources within yourself and your own humanity or frailness, you know, when you encounter something like that or something like that, it's so important to have that knowledge that you're not alone and that hope. I read once that, actually, that the word hope in the Bible means expectation. We can expect God to walk alongside us and be with us and that, right, there is just a huge comfort knowing that you're not facing this by yourself. It's really important, and that's what faith means to me in that regard.

Speaker 2:

That answer gave me chills. A lot of them have, but that answer gave me chills. Chrissy, how about you? What does faith mean to you?

Speaker 3:

I think that's a really great way of saying it, that it's the fabric. Because it is, it feels like it's that backbone of when things are hard. Where are we turning? Are we turning in anger toward God how dare you do this to me? Or leaning back into that fabric that has been built? That has been built. Fabric takes a lot of pieces of string to put together, woven in there, and I think if you've built a life of faith, that that's where you'll lean into.

Speaker 3:

And I do think that in the hard times I feel like it's often that we either go sort of violently one way or the other of violently one way or the other, and I can see validly why people get very angry with God and walk away. But at the same time I found my faith growing in the heart because perhaps because of that, because of that faith being the fabric behind me, but I'm more sure of the Lord. I'm not less sure, I'm more sure. And so I guess my encouragement to those who are going through those really dark times is lean into your faith. I think you'll be surprised at how much, like you said, hope is expectation. You can expect that God's going to show up and he will. If we just take that little mustard seed of faith, he really shows up and yeah, both of those answers.

Speaker 2:

you could expect that God is going to show up, and for a lot of people that's problematic, like Chrissy said, like I can see where people you could go either direction. It does seem to be either direction to, from people that I talk to and hard times it's. It's either, like Chrissy said, it has pushed you and it pushed people into their faith and and they cling to it like like it's air, because it is quite honestly air or they, they walk away, and so that's the purpose of this podcast and telling stories and sharing stories like we're going to share today with with you, rachel and chrissy, having walked through your own difficult times. An answer like that is so encouraging to me because, yeah, you can. Just when you think of it like that, like it's the fabric or the bedrock of, of of who we are, then Then we know that we're never alone there, and so I love both of those answers. So thank both of you.

Speaker 2:

Well, rachel, one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on is because we do life together as much as we can, from Florida and Ohio. We have a text thread with myself, chrissy, our friend Joy and another author, rebecca Millett, and that has been life-giving for me. I know Chrissy probably would agree, but we've had a front-row seat to watching you live out a life that most people would describe as untenable, as difficult, would describe as untenable, as difficult. We watch you live out a life that would really ruin marriages. We watch you live out a life where you're raising two very different children and somehow managing to give both of them the attention and the love that they need the attention, the love that they need. And so, of course, I want my listeners to know, during those, these dark times sometimes little dark times for you how you held on to your faith.

Speaker 2:

So let's just kind of start with the fun stuff I also love and, by the way, guys, I will put Rachel's socials on in the show notes, but follow her on Instagram because she's got some really sweet reels and I think for a little while there Scott was helping you right. So the reason why I bring that up is because I love it when you post pictures of you and he. And so you guys met pretty, pretty young and got married. So let's start there. Let's start talk to us about marrying Scott, and then I know that you had Drew, and then let's talk about Meg and let's just go from there.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So I was raised in church and Scott was actually my youth pastor's son, so you know youth group and that kind of stuff. We always hung out. We were friends first. There is an age gap of six years between us, so whenever I was 16, he was in his 20s, so he obviously didn't start dating them. He waited until I was 18 to even consider thinking of me in that regard. So very gentleman-like, and I always honored that. So we started out as really good friends, then best friends, and then we and things turned real and we got married and a few years of marriage it's just almost like we were playing house, you know. We never encountered any trouble, never encountered any struggles. It was just me and him and everything was rosy. And then I had a miscarriage. And then that actually hit me really hard because I've never experienced any kind of loss before and I was 22 or 23. I was so young and that actually made me grow up very fast. When I had that miscarriage, life got real.

Speaker 2:

Can we park there just for a second Because there are so many listeners? Most of my listenerships are female who have been through miscarriages.

Speaker 1:

Right, and a lot of it was real, because people didn't understand. Whenever I experienced the miscarriage, I experienced it on every level. I felt the loss in my body, I felt the pain, I felt the pain in passing the child. I felt the, the soulish pain of loss, like a grief. A part of me died. And then there was that spiritual pain of knowing, you know, that I was separated from my child, and so it was. It really rocked me, you know, and people would say not so considerate things as in oh, you can just have another one, or you know, that's really a blessing, you know, because that means there's something wrong with your child, or it was. I've heard it all and so, and I was young too, so I was 22. And so I think one of the most meaningful things that people would say to me would be I'm sorry you went through this, or I'm sorry you're going through this Because they didn't offer an explanation, they didn't offer a reason, they didn't go into the whole God works in mysterious ways thing.

Speaker 2:

They didn't throw Christian cliches at it.

Speaker 1:

Right, exactly, exactly. And I think it's because people are uncomfortable, because they do not know what to say, and so they feel like they have to fill in the silence. And you do not have to do that. Sometimes silence is okay, and it's okay just to sit there with your friend or with your family member and just be like I don't understand what you're going through, but I'm here for you.

Speaker 2:

And I'm glad you said that, because we do feel like we need to anytime something difficult happens we need to fill in the silence, and some of the kindest things people can say to you is I'm sorry. I'm praying for you is something that we say between the four of us all the time.

Speaker 1:

Now you were young.

Speaker 2:

I remember when I was 22, I wasn't really really strong in my faith. You said it rocked you. What did it do for your faith?

Speaker 1:

I actually going back to Chrissy's answer. I mean, I always being raised in church, I've always learned just to turn to God in any kind of hard times, and this is like one of my very first hard times I've ever experienced and so I would turn on worship music and it was actually it was during February and February March that it happened and I think everything was finally concluded around Easter, and Easter just meant so much more to me because of the new life and knowing that I had a child in heaven and just the realization of the resurrection and everything was just so much more vivid to me because I experienced that loss and so honestly like I can understand what Chrissy said the faith grew. So actually my faith grew during that time, even though everything about me was aching but that can't really be said for the second part when I found out about my second child being diagnosed autistic.

Speaker 2:

Talk to us about that. So you have a son, drew, my rainbow baby. Yes, drew is your rainbow baby and he is a senior this year, right?

Speaker 1:

Oh, yes, I don't know how we got there.

Speaker 2:

Um. So so you drew, comes, and then life changes, right, right.

Speaker 1:

Yes, so I have my son and Meg. I find out about Meg. She was a surprise Blessing. Drew was only about. He was only like seven months old when I found out that I was pregnant with Megan. Yes, so you could imagine I'm 23.

Speaker 2:

That is quite the surprise, holy moly. We thought they were close in age, but we didn't know.

Speaker 1:

Oh, they were close. I did cry and so, because I was just like, how am I going to do this? I'm 23 years old, I have or 23 or 24 years old, I have a seven month old kid another one on the way, but it worked out, and she came in 2007, in July, and then we were just like the little family you know, the mom and dad and the son and daughter. We had this sweet, cute little house in this charming neighborhood. So we were, we were living the dream. You know, the only thing we didn't have was a dog. So I, just I was back. I got my fairy tale back, I got my, you know, I was playing house again. I was the mom, you know, and then I started noticing that Megan wasn't responding to me the way Drew was whenever he was her age. She wasn't talking, she wasn't looking at me in the eyes, and so I I had a suspicion, and so we took her to to the doctor and she was diagnosed on the autism spectrum.

Speaker 1:

And this shook me. I felt like I was blindsided. I never and like I felt like I was blindsided with the miscarriage. It was I don't know why, but it just felt like a hundred times more and all of a sudden I'm thinking what am I going to do? How am I going to?

Speaker 1:

I felt so inadequate. I felt so I'm 24 years, 23, 24 years old I'm actually around this time, I'm about 25. So I'm still young and I'm like how am I? I hit rock bottom. I would love to say that I was just Miss Faith Woman, but I was not. I turned in and I spiraled and my thoughts turned dark. And then I'm thinking how in the world am I going to raise this child if I'm struggling even just to make it through the day? And depression hit and it just seemed like I was grappling just to even exist. And then to go back to what we first started talking about in Psalm I magnified autism. It was so big to me, like it was booming. You know big light screaming in my ear and Jesus was just like a whisper. I'll never be forsaken.

Speaker 4:

Real small.

Speaker 1:

Everything else was just huge and it was just, like I said, so magnified and in a way I exalted it by putting it above everything I've ever really even. You know, there's a time, you know, when you say do I just know this or do I believe it? There's a big difference between what you think and what you actually believe. And when you encounter these life mountains you are right now testing do I know this or do I believe this? And so I really just dug into scripture and I actually, like I carried my Bible with me all the time. I even like I don't even know if I even told anyone. I just needed Jesus so much that I even clung to my Bible even when I was falling asleep, because it's just like I needed a physical token that he was there, even though I knew it, even though I believed it, and I would say it over and over and I would, you know, and slowly.

Speaker 1:

It didn't happen fast, it wasn't an overnight. You know, all of a sudden, I'm space woman. It did not work that way. It was slow and like, why? Why that mustard seed? You know, it's so small but it's powerful, but it grows, and then it grows, and then it grows. And then Jesus made the thing about. It's this towering tree that birds make their nests in, but that did not happen overnight.

Speaker 2:

I appreciate your candor when you got the diagnosis with Meg and you hit rock bottom. Talk to us about that bridge, though, because I think that is so true. They say that the longest 10 inches in the world is between your head and your heart. How did you go from? The world is ending autism was bigger than everything, to that first little step to faith, to where you were holding the Bible and holding the token. What's that bridge like?

Speaker 1:

bridge, like, okay, everything's screaming against you, you have thoughts bombarding you. What are you going to do now? How are you going to do this? How are you going to survive this? What are you going to? You know you can't escape it. I mean, like when you, when you're sitting in a room and you have the tv on, you can turn the tv off and you can, you know, sit in silence, but your mind will scream. Everything, every part of your senses is screaming. Everything's the opposite. Like where I was sitting, everything was opposite of what I've always been taught, you know.

Speaker 1:

And so I had to make a choice. I didn't feel the choice. I didn't have goosebumps. I didn't feel the choice. I didn't have goosebumps, I didn't have scriptures jumping out at me, I didn't have anything. I just had what was said in the word and I had to come to the point where I trusted the word over my own feelings, over my own thoughts, over my own situation.

Speaker 1:

And that is probably the biggest battle, because everything in you is telling you the opposite. And there's nothing, there's no sensation, there's no aha moment. Yeah, yeah, there's no, nothing tangible. And that's what faith is. And, amy, you were talking about the air. You know there's nothing tangible, you have to step out, despite the feelings, despite the thoughts just screaming at you, which means you can just rip off your head and throw it across the room.

Speaker 1:

You know, and I came to the point where I actually had to force myself to think a scripture. I just took one scripture I honestly can't even remember it right now as I'm thinking about it and I actually had to, like force my mind to think. I think it was greater is he who is in me I think it was something like that, and I sometimes I even had to tap my head greater is he who is in me than he that's in the world. I actually had to force myself because everything else was so loud, and then it got easier, and then it got easier and then it got easier. You know, but that very first choice wasn't.

Speaker 1:

It was a choice, it wasn't based on feelings. See, that's one of the things. That's just like you walk by faith and not by sight. What is sight? It's a sense, it's your senses. You know, there's two things. You know, like what I said is it something that you know or is it something that you believe? And then, so I actually had to, like, make a choice and walk it, take the step.

Speaker 3:

It's that daily walking, and it is. You don't even realize that there's a change. The voices feel just as loud, but it's every day. They get just a little bit softer and the Lord gets louder and louder, you know, but you don't notice it until much later. It's like, oh, my goodness, this is on a complete 180. And it's that initial choice that one choice. And yeah, you don't hear big, you know angels singing. It's just a choice. And then it's another choice and another choice and eventually it takes that mustard seed and it grows.

Speaker 2:

I love that. I love it's a choice. It's a choice, it's a choice and I know going through my stuff that that choice can sometimes be every 30 seconds. It could be every minute.

Speaker 4:

I love that. I love that, Rachel.

Speaker 2:

Actually, nobody can see us. We're on Zoom and we're on an audio platform, but just tapping your head with the truth of the gospel, greater is he that is in me than he that is in the world Because the lies are so loud. Right, we serve a God who is not unfamiliar with our sufferings, but we also have an enemy that wants to take us down. And there's a song that I love so much by an old worship leader that we had, and the lyric goes something like this when the lies are loud, let the gospel drown them out.

Speaker 2:

And I think your point to making little decisions every day to trust him and sometimes falling down on that right, Sometimes completely forgetting everything that we know in our heads that I will never leave you or forsake you. I will be with you. And when Rebecca was on the podcast, one of her favorite songs is Psalm 43. And all of those, through the water, through the fire, through all of it, I will be with you. But we have to and this is something that Chrissy and I talk about a lot in the mental health field, because it's frustrating when you see people not making choices that can make them better and so that choice every single day to believe in the God of the universe and that he had ordered this Right.

Speaker 1:

I think mental health is huge in regards to when you encounter something Like we were talking about perspective earlier. You can't just let your mind sit on the darkness and people will be like, well, I can't help it. You know it's right there, it's right in front of me. Yes, I know, I've been there. I know it's right in front of you, staring at you, screaming at you, jumping up and down and waving at you. You know Like that's when Peter started to slip because he looked at the wind and the waves. You know it was screaming at him.

Speaker 1:

He took his eyes off of Jesus and sometimes you just have to like we were talking. You have to force your mind on it or else you're going to spiral and you have to. You have to be like the gatekeeper of your own mind. You know you have to be like the gatekeeper of your own mind. You know you have to make sure the thoughts whatever's pure, whatever's lovely, whatever's admirable, whatever's praiseworthy think on these things. You know it's not just something that we hang on our walls.

Speaker 1:

Mental health is so important. What goes on between your ears is going to affect your attitude, your mood, your faith, everything around you. And so perspective is used and I just don't think this is talked about as much as it should be within the church about mental health and focusing on the good. And yes, life is terrible, sometimes it's awful, it's dark, but by choosing to focus on the good, you have your salvation, you have the hope of heaven. And by choosing to focus on a light instead of the dark, you know, it says the entrance of this word give a light. You know, are you giving his word entrance or are you giving other things entrance? And that makes all, at the end of the day, that makes all the difference.

Speaker 2:

It's so funny that you referenced that verse in Philippians 4, because I wrote it down as you were talking, because I do think that so much of the battle is in our head. That's Satan's playground and there are some legitimate, there are plenty of legitimate, severe mental illnesses. There's people like me who have PTSD, or there's people that have anxiety and all the things, but that doesn't. That doesn't release us from the God of the universe, nor does it release us from the responsibility of obeying the God of the universe.

Speaker 1:

I totally agree with that. You know, ptsd is a real thing, autism is a real thing, anxiety it's a real thing. But, like you said, we can't use that as a crutch and I don't want to say the word excuse because I don't want to make light of it. Like I said, it all goes down to magnify the Lord with me, make him bigger than the diagnosis of autism, make him bigger than the ache from the miscarriage, make him bigger than financial woes. And it's just, and it doesn't mean our problem is just going to like magically poof and go away no, it's not, but it's going to. Like Tracy said, it's going to strengthen your. It can strengthen that backbone.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I'm just going to be hearing make him bigger, make him bigger, make him bigger. Because, wow, right, if we were to sit down and write the things that we're worried about, the first thing that we're worried about is going to be the biggest thing, but he's bigger than that. And I don't mean to sound callous and, chrissy, you might be able to speak to this just a little bit, because I think this is a powerful part of this interview and the power of the choice to believe even when it's dark. I don't mean to sound callous when I say that that is just the long and short of it.

Speaker 2:

I worked at the hospital. I worked at, you know, on a psych unit, and I watched the same patients come in over and over and over again with legitimate, severe mental illnesses but that, unfortunately, they still have to make decisions in this world that are going to move them forward. And instead, so oftentimes we get stuck in our pain and even in our severe mental illness, and we forget to magnify, we forget to talk about who the star of the story is. We talk about in this podcast all the time, but, chrissy, you always have shared with me when I get discouraged about my own life. That about this power of choice. I would love for you to share with the listeners your take on that for a second.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean, I do think that the choice whether by every day it may be every hour I mean that is the gift that God gave us. We have free will, right, we have the ability to make a choice, and he's allowed us that, and now it's our turn to make those choices. I wish that every time we made a good choice we got a big hallelujah chorus and it was an obvious. That was the right choice. Most days I'm saying, okay, lord, I think I'm going to go this way. But if I'm going the wrong way, I need like a big red light that says don't go this way. I'm honestly all I want to do is follow you, lord. But half the days I question myself whether or not I'm making the right choice. But I think that the heart whether or not I'm making the right choice, but I think that the heart one of my favorite things is that God loved the heart of David, and I think you know when I get stuck in oh my gosh, is that the right choice or the wrong choice? The right choice or the wrong choice? And at the end of the day, if my heart is Lord, I honestly just want to follow you. Which way is that I'm going to go this way. If I'm wrong, show me he will. Again, we can trust him that he's going to show up and that he will tell us if we're going the wrong way. It sets me free to know that God is looking at our hearts and that, again, there's no thing that we can do that he can't fix, that he doesn't know that we're going to take a left turn when we should take a right turn.

Speaker 3:

I can get so caught up in, even in the choices of well, what if that's the wrong choice? What if it's the wrong choice? That I'll make no choice. The key here is pray, ask the Lord for guidance, make a choice.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and again, we're not trying to be callous we understand that sometimes it is literally the most painful choice you will ever make is to choose Jesus, choose the sovereign God of the universe that allowed the suffering your suffering, chrissy, my suffering, rachel, yours, meg, scott's. He allowed it and so for so many people, that actually is a crisis of faith or we can allow it to push us into our faith, it to push us in to our faith. So Rachel Meg is 16, 17 at the time of this recording. It didn't stop when she got diagnosed with autism. Right, it was probably even and you can correct me if I'm wrong, because we are honoring and trying to bring awareness to autism but it might have been a little bit easier when she was younger than it is now. Maybe you can speak to that, but talk to us about that journey.

Speaker 2:

So you settle in, you have Drew, who is only 16 months apart, and you have Meg, who you recognize. Something's up, she gets diagnosed. You have this really dark night of the soul. Make God bigger than it all, and I just think of that. I don't know who said it in one of the gospels, but, sir, we would see Jesus. And that's what you did? You made it bigger than autism. You made Jesus bigger than autism. You made him the star of the story. But for those listening out there and a lot of people will hit play on this because they have an autistic child or somebody or a child on the spectrum- Talk to us about life after she was diagnosed, all the way up until now.

Speaker 1:

My husband and I talk about this a lot because we actually I think we were just talking about this last week we said, well, would we even be this mature, this selfless, how do we not experience mixed diagnosis? And we don't think so. Experienced makes diagnosis and we don't think so. I'm not saying that we're grateful for the diagnosis, but there is good that can come out of walking through this journey and seeing the value in. She wasn't even ever supposed to talk and now she does. She can communicate, and it helped us value the little things, celebrate the small victories and just hold on to hope. And I think every stage has had its moments, because now she can talk a lot better than she did whenever she was younger and she can do things a little bit more independently than she had. I mean, it took a while, but there's things that we had to go through that took a lot longer, and personal issues and things like that. So every stage has its bright lights and his dark spots, but in regards to autism and the journey, it really helped us grow as a couple.

Speaker 1:

Amy, you mentioned earlier about how these dark moments can test relationships and there we know of several couples that have split family members, that they've been divorced because they had a child that had a disability. And we determined to grow closer and to talk things out and to tag team and whenever I was struggling, he would step up. Whenever he was struggling, he would step up. Whenever he was struggling, I'd step up and we grew as a couple. We grew our relationship and we knew we had each other's back and we know we have each other's back. And that is just so crucial because if you have, when you have a child that has a disability, like I said, so many things scream at you, they're, there are so much limitation and how you viewed your life, that was whenever you said I do look so different from when you were standing there at the altar to whenever it's three in the morning and you're at your wit's end.

Speaker 1:

You know this is, this is the time whenever you, is it better or worse? You know sometimes it's a lot of work. You know and that's when you have to you cling to God and you cling to each other and you help each other through. And then I've noticed, um, when we go through these dark times 3 am or this is what we call it that our relationship would actually, you know, would elevate. You know I can't really put it into words, it's just, it's a beautiful thing in a way is, like I said, are we excited about the 3am moments? Absolutely not, but there's a resiliency there and there's that knowledge that God's with us and we have each other. It's like that. That burst of triple rated cord is not easily broken.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, wow, I love that, and it's funny because, on the aforementioned group text that we have, we could pick up your phone at any given time on that thread and have literally 185 notifications. My favorite, though, is it shouldn't be my favorite. I'm not. I'm not rejoicing in your suffering, but I'm. I have. I'm headed towards a point. My favorite is Rachel will pick up, you know, the next day at five o'clock in the afternoon, and this is where I'm not laughing.

Speaker 2:

You're like sorry guys, meg didn't even go to sleep until 10m, so I've been sleeping, and so what does that look like for you? I would love to know some of the things that the Lord shares with you in the middle of the night, when you can't get her calm, or prayers that you pray Again. The purpose of this podcast is to show people that you can have faith in the hard, but also some practical Right and, and so you oftentimes will text us and be like sorry y'all. I went to sleep at 10am and now I'm awake because Meg struggles with her nights and days and things of that nature. What are some conversations or messages that you've gotten from Jesus in the literal dark?

Speaker 1:

Oh, okay. So honestly, those seasons of when she hadn't been sleeping would crazily come during times where I was on a deadline for writing. I had a, I had a novel due.

Speaker 1:

I had a novel due and it's three, four, five, six in the morning and I can't even, you know, put two words together, let alone come up with something brilliant to put on paper. There would be times actually I actually not to veer off point, but I actually started writing as a creative outlet. For those hours where I'm sitting beside Meg, it's because my husband actually encouraged that. He was saying you know what, because he, he helps me on the weekends or the days that he's off, but he has his job, is very, he um, focused forward. He has to be on it because he works with things, with Exxon, and so he has. He can't, he can't like uh, have a brain fog with his job. He needs to be on it. So he encouraged me, you know, to write, because I wrote early on in our relationship and he's like that might be a really good thing for you and it was, it was. It's very, very therapeutic for me.

Speaker 1:

I would, I could create, I could visit the 1920s. When I'm in a dark bedroom at three in the morning, I use that as a launching tool. I'm like okay, like I said, it's perspective. I could sit there and wallow and think and defeat, or I can say you know what. The house is quiet. She's trying to go to sleep. How about I just write a murder mystery or whatever?

Speaker 1:

I use a lot of my stories and, like the starlet spy, I wrote the majority of that between 1 am and 4 in the morning and whenever I look back on that like I would go to sleep and I'd wake up and I did not even remember what I written it was and I don really tell. I don't know if I even said this before. I might, I don't know. But when I look back on that book I'm like that was a miracle book because I 70% I had no idea it was the the 4am, 5am, being up all night kind of thing. So I would have these moments and whenever I'd be stuck in a story or whatever, and in the middle of the night while I'm sitting with Meg, it almost just would drop in my heart. I wouldn't even be thinking about it and it was like a light came on and I'm like that's it, I can fix it, and I knew that. It was almost like God, like giving me these little gifts. You know, like you're putting your family first, you're putting your, you're serving you. Jesus said the son of man didn't come to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many. You know you're giving, you're giving of yourself. So here here's a plot, here's a plot twist for you.

Speaker 1:

So I just would like to encourage people that it says that do not become weary in doing good, because you'll reap a harvest. You know it's so. It's so easy to get fatigued and to get exhausted, and a lot of that is perspective too. You focus on the wrong and you let that in and then all of a sudden you're drained. You have nothing to give you. Focus on the right. You focus on the right. You focus on the light and you know, such as I have, give IV. You know you, you put in and then it comes out.

Speaker 3:

One of my favorite things about reading your books, and reading Christian books in general, is that you guys, as authors, put your characters in impossible situations. And then for me it's this reminder every time I finish a book. That was impossible and look what God did. Hey, that was impossible. Because inevitably in some part of the story either it's impossible for the romance to work or somebody's literal life is in danger, or whatever. It's impossible. And then I'm reminded that it looks impossible to me, but it's not impossible to God. And so when he drops those plot twists it's like hey, it's not impossible to me. You may have thought you wrote yourself in a corner. It's not impossible to me. It's just, I just love, I love that it's for me. I mean, I read every day, so every day I'm reminded that what looks impossible to me isn't to God, and I love that it's such a good reminder.

Speaker 2:

That is a little bit of a mic drop because you know, like Rachel, when I'm asking you these questions, you are you're doing exactly what you open this podcast with and you're like I'm magnifying him. I'm magnifying him and I just love how, in those dark nights whether it's dark outside or not but that, but that you're writing books, and any of us who have ever written anything knows that you can write 15 books, and then you're on a deadline and you've never written anything in your life and it all sucks and all the things. And so I love how the Lord is redeeming this, what some people would probably complain about, which I've never heard you do redeeming that time. And we're not talking you know, the cat in the hat books. We're talking, books with deep faith, meanings, and I am so grateful to you, rachel, that you have not sat down on that.

Speaker 3:

And what an amazing thing. So you're glorifying the Lord and then all of us reading get that same. We get blessed. There's people across the country. They're all getting blessed because you made the choice to say, okay, it's the middle of the night, but I'm on deadline and I'm going to. Lord, bring me something, bring me something. I need you and so I love that your heart to magnify the Lord now is blessing others continually, you know.

Speaker 2:

Well, and the great thing about books is it's into protruding right Like forever and ever amen to maturity. Right Like forever and ever Amen, and so it's. It's just like. It's just like our God, though, to to do this Right, and so Meg is going to be a part of your and Scott's life. She's not leaving home, and she's going to be a part of your, your life forever, and so for you to have that sustaining faith is remarkable to me. I'm just going to be honest with you. It's absolutely remarkable to me. Besides being in the word, besides your husband, what are some other things that help you stay in this place of magnifying Jesus over autism and no sleep?

Speaker 1:

Well surrounding myself with people that will remind me of those kind of things, like our text thread. Your people are so important, who speak into you, who you allow to speak into you. It's very important, and even in the career path that I've chosen being an author, that I've chosen being an author you know your work gets dissected and raked over the the cold sometimes, and sometimes you have to shut off that voice too, and so it's like I said, it's very important who you surround yourself with, and like even practical things, like making sure that you're keeping your body moving and you're eating the right things and you're taking care of yourself in all regards spirit, soul and body, because there is something definitely to be said for self-care and I will tell you just from, I'm at the end of 16 weeks from being done with coursework for my doctorate, and so I'm beginning.

Speaker 2:

It's weird, I'm beginning to feel like I know what I'm talking about a little bit, which is scary. But yeah, moving your body, getting the stress hormones out, especially when you are lacking sleep and on a weird schedule, and all of that, may you know, making sure that you are taking care of your body as the image bearer that you are, I think, is not only good but it's honoring to the Lord. We talk a lot about community on this podcast and so I'm glad that that is part of your walking through this journey story together is your community there? We love being part of your community. The Christian fiction community in general is just a remarkably encouraging community as a whole. But all of that to say, and as we round out here towards the end, I think it's so amazing that God has turned these dark nights into beautiful words. 500,000 words between how many books now?

Speaker 1:

I think I'm on seven or eight, something like that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we're going to talk about your new one coming out here in a minute, but I mean, like I literally have chills right now because you have taken something. Like Joseph said, you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good. And so, yeah, there are nights, there are days that I don't go to sleep until 10 AM, but the Lord has dropped a plot twist, or you know, and I just I love that, I love how he is faithful in doing that. I think that he has called you to that you are so gifted and, guys, I will put all. I'll put Rachel's link tree and the comments, but if you like, especially 1920s romantic fiction, that with a, with a whole lot of Jesus in it, go for it. But I want to ask you this question and take a deep breath before you answer me, because it is something that I'm asking everybody in this season, and you guys both know how much I love music, and Corey Asbury came out with a song last I believe it was last summer called Kind, and here are the lyrics.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes marriages don't work, and here are the lyrics. Sometimes marriages don't work, sometimes babies die, sometimes rehab turns to relapse and we're left just asking why, for all the prayers I've prayed, I still wonder if he's real. And if he is, how does he choose who he does and doesn't heal? But then Corey ends the song and on that day, in the darkest day of history, when I look up at the cross, I look up at Jesus and I think that's what kindness costs. And so, rachel, the question I have for you is the miscarriage, meg's diagnosis. Was God kind to you?

Speaker 1:

You know, in regards to my life and my husband's life, we grew up Christian, we were Christian all our lives, and so, in that respect, people would be like, why? And I never blame God. I think God is on our side, god is for us. We can't, we can't separate God from his word. That's how we know who God is is through his word. If he says he's this, then we have to take him at his word that he's this. I mean, that's all we have.

Speaker 1:

So I can't let experiences define God to me. I can't let triumph or failure define God to me. I have to only let the word define who he is to me, and or I can't let feelings or the bombarding thoughts. So it's important to elevate the word and let that be the final authority regarding your faith. And let that be the final authority regarding your faith, because if you do not, then you're everything that you believe. If you base your faith on experiences, only feel that God is near when you're doing good, and whenever you're doing bad he's left you. If you base your faith on experiences, you won't have anything solid.

Speaker 1:

And I've seen God's word work again and again and again and again. I've seen him prove himself, and so Meg even has come so much farther than she was even supposed to. You know we can't limit God, was even supposed to. You know we can't limit God, we can't. I think that's another thing with the magnify. You know we see him as much as we give him access to us. You know he is huge, but if we're only seeing him through a pinhole he's going to be so small. So I think the more that we let him in, the more we can see his hand on things, his fingerprints on things, and so, yes, god has been good to me all my life and he's been faithful to me all my life and he will continue to be faithful to me all my life. Um, I will. If there's anything that I know, it's his goodness and I that. That's who he is to me. He is good, he is mercy, he is grace and he is kind.

Speaker 3:

I don't think there's anything more to say. I mean, that's exactly he. He is like you said, if we're going to go by experience, we're going to be up and down, up and down. He oh. Good day, bad day. God loves me, he hates me, but if we go by his word, then we know, we know that God is love, we know that God is just, we know, and it creates that solid ground for our faith.

Speaker 2:

Well, that backbone that you guys were talking about at the beginning of the podcast, that backbone. And so, guys, we are not sitting here on a podcast acting like Rachel's life is perfect. She's not telling you that. This is her posture 365 days, 24, seven.

Speaker 2:

But I have been unable and I believe this might be the 114th or 15th episode I have been unable to disprove the faithfulness of God, because all of my life he has been faithful to Chrissy. All of your life he has been faithful, and we can say this during some of the hardest times of our lives, like I have, chrissy sitting beside me just went through one of the most difficult times in her life, and all of our lives he has been faithful. And I just I think that it's so remarkable, one of the things I just keep thinking of, and so I felt very led to say this to you, rachel is you mentioned Peter, and you know Peter's an interesting dude, like he's just Jesus was super, super patient with Peter, but I love something that I heard John Piper say the other day. Actually, he said when Jesus went to Peter and said you're going to deny me three times, and Peter's like, no, I don't. And Jesus says to Peter Peter, do you love me. And Peter says well, yeah, lord, I love you. And what does Jesus say? He says feed my sheep. And this goes on three times. And that's what you are doing.

Speaker 2:

It's as if God reached down into the dark nights when Meg went and sleep and said Rachel, do you love me? Yes, lord, I love you. Feed my sheep. Because, whether or not you know how much your books minister to people, have ministered to me I get to read them early. Sometimes You're feeding his sheep in a world that's dark, where the harvest is plentiful and the laborers are few, and sometimes laborers are in a dark bedroom in the middle of the night behind a keyboard, and I, for one, am grateful to you for that, because it matters. What you're doing right now on this podcast matters, and so thank you for for your faithfulness, thank you for your perspective here today for our listeners, because I feel like I've been to church. Magnify jesus people, chrissy, any parting words?

Speaker 3:

No, that was beautiful.

Speaker 2:

Well done, All right. So before I give Rachel the mic, as I do with all of our guests, I do want to mention to you guys that she has a book coming out April the 23rd called Walking on Hidden Wings, and I have had the opportunity to read that book and you are not going to want to miss it. As I do with all books, and especially when authors come onto the podcast, I will be giving one away. I just need somebody to send me a message and say hey, I want Rachel's book. The first person that does that. You can click on that link tree and the show notes. For access to me Fastest way is Instagram. And so Walking on Hidden Wings that release is April the 23rd. It might be my favorite, I don't know. The Starlet Spy is pretty good. So while we're talking about that, Chrissy, what's your favorite Rachel McDaniel book?

Speaker 3:

So while we're talking about that, chrissy, what's your favorite Rachel McDaniel book? All of them. I literally beg her to please please send me.

Speaker 2:

Do you have scraps of the story? Do you have a page written? Would you please? Can I please, please, please, have just a little bit of your story? She's very gracious to let me read sometimes. Well, and, and she's not, she's not. She doesn't have the proclivity to leave people unsafe, which is your least favorite thing. I'm like what are you doing? Rachel's left people unsafe again. I can't stop reading there nobody's safe. Um, okay, rachel, thank you for being here today. Thank you for this message. It's going to be so edifying all around the world. We are on six continents. We're still trying to get Antarctica. We don't have that one yet. So if anybody, knows anybody in?

Speaker 2:

Antarctica. Share the podcast, but please go out and wherever you get books and Rachel's going to share her contact information here in a minute but Walking on Hidden Wings releases April the 23rd. In all the places, first person to send me a message gets that book. Rachel, I always give the guests the mic at the very end. There are people listening to this because autism is so prevalent. Just learned that actually, because autism is so prevalent, the likelihood of many people listening to this with children on the spectrum is going to be there. I know for sure people are going to be listening to this that have had miscarriages. What do you say to them as parting words? That they're in a dark room themselves with an earbud and listening to this, no pressure. What do you say to them?

Speaker 1:

Well, first, I see you. Everything I said today on this podcast is not something that I just you know put together because it might sound pretty. I lived through it, I fought for it, I've survived it and I know how it feels. So, with that said, there's always hope. I think that is probably the most important thing that I cling to, you know, because without hope, despair sets in, and so there is hope, there's light. Sometimes you got to fight for it, but you're never without help and God will always back you. You just need to put sometimes, you just need to put a little bit of effort, Like we talked about.

Speaker 1:

Sometimes it gets easier, but sometimes it is every five minutes. You have to remind yourself I'm not alone. Every five minutes that you have to say today is just a terrible day. Tomorrow will be better. You know that, even like when everything's screaming at you. This is the day the Lord has made. I will rejoice and be glad in it. Do we feel like rejoicing? Absolutely not. Rejoice and be glad in it. Do we feel like rejoicing? Absolutely not. But it's a choice and if you start making those choices, little by little, things will get brighter. Not because everything around you is brighter, but because what's within you is brighter.

Speaker 2:

Wow, that is a mic drop, because what's in you is brighter. Magnify Jesus, make him bigger than your problems, because he is. I'm stunned. This doesn't happen to me very often on podcasts, but the message of this podcast has been unbelievable, and so thank you for being here today Before we close out the podcast. I have not gone a single episode without closing it out this way, and so, rachel, I being here today Before we close out the podcast, I have not gone a single episode without closing it out this way, and so, rachel, I proclaim it over you, your precious Meg Drew Scott, you are seen, you are known, you are heard, you are loved and you're really, really loved and you're so, so valued. Thank you for being here, thank you for what you do, thank you for being on the podcast today, over and over Jesus you.

Speaker 4:

And when my hope is fading and when worries do assail me, I will remember how you. You never failed me. You have pulled me out from the depths. You have saved me from certain death. You have shown yourself faithful to me over and over Jesus. So let my life glorify you and teach me to walk beside you, you.

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Amy Watson

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