Wednesdays With Watson: Faith & Trauma Amy Watson- PTSD Patient-Trauma Survivor

Healing and Hope Across Generations ft. Mom McGowan, The Silent Generation

• Amy Watson: Trauma Survivor, Hope Carrier, Precious Daughter Of The Most High God • Season 7 • Episode 7

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Imagine finding strength in silence and wisdom in the unspoken stories of the past. This episode brings you a heartfelt conversation with the extraordinary Mom McGowan, a 91-year-old hero from the silent generation whose resilience during the toughest of times offers us lessons in perseverance. Mom takes us through her life journey, illustrating how the greatest generation weathered the storms of the Depression and World Wars with a stoic determination that often left emotions unexpressed yet carved a path of silent strength and wisdom for future generations.

Our conversation unfolds further into the complexities of childhood separation and the coping strategies that emerge from such experiences. Through intimate personal stories, we explore the emotional challenges of growing up in a large family, experiencing separation, and how these molded a life dedicated to helping others facing similar adversities. These narratives remind us of the crucial role empathy and understanding play in overcoming emotional suppression, helping us connect with those around us on a deeper level. Together, we uncover the resilience required to navigate life's changes and the transformative power of support, communication, and love.

Finally, we delve into the journey of healing past trauma through faith, communication, and the conscious choice to build bridges over walls. Mom McGowan's insights, coupled with personal anecdotes, highlight the impact of love, faith, and openness in breaking generational patterns of emotional repression. This episode serves as a testament to the enduring power of love and faith, offering hope and understanding for those navigating their challenges. Join us for an inspiring exploration of enduring lessons passed down through generations and the profound impact they have on our lives today.

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You ARE:
SEEN KNOWN HEARD LOVED VALUED

Speaker 2:

And all my life, you have been faith.

Speaker 1:

And all my life you have been so. So, hey everybody, and welcome back to the Wednesdays with Watson podcast. If you don't know by now, my name is Amy Watson and I am your host. We are in our seventh season so hard to believe.

Speaker 1:

And today begins a journey through the generations that I wanted to do. I wanted us to evaluate in this season, trauma and you, how each generation experienced trauma and how that probably was passed down to the generation beneath them. And so today a very special episode, certainly a special episode for me we will drop into this conversation with Mama Gallen, who is 91 years old, and for those of you who don't know who Mama Gallen is, she and her husband, dad McGowan, started the children's home that I grew up in and, quite frankly, saved my life. Today we talked to mom about how not only she experienced trauma and how she had to learn how to change, based on some generational things that she learned from the greatest generation, as mom is part of the silent generation, and so I hope that you will gain today from this conversation, because there's so much that is said in between the lines and this interview with this 91-year-old human being one of the best on planet Earth, but she tells us how she got from pushing things down to actively sharing things in family and in community. And so let's drop into this conversation with Mama Gowan. One of the greatest honors of my life is this interview with her.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so my first question to you is so you are part of the silent generation? What year were you born?

Speaker 2:

1933 1933.

Speaker 1:

That was a long time ago, guys years ago almost. I mean like 91 year, 91 and a half years ago, so you are 91 years old, right and guys, when I tell you that she is remarkable, she texts me things that I can't even figure out how to text, and so, um, but thank you for being here, mom. I've been, I've been telling everybody that we were going to do this forever and, um, we really want to get your perspective because you have so much wisdom, and so thank you for doing this.

Speaker 2:

You're very welcome.

Speaker 1:

You know that I I got my training at the children's home doing this stuff, getting behind microphones and talking, and so it's kind of a full circle moment, so we're just going to jump right into it. So your caretakers and we're going to get to that in a few minutes about your story, but your caretakers were part of the greatest generation, the Depression era, yeah, so tell us what you remember about the adults in your life, particularly the Depression or in general, in general, or whatever you want to share really.

Speaker 2:

Well, the adults in our life were very much. You respected them and you would never question anything. They told you and you just had total confidence in their wisdom. And it was a hard time because it was getting toward the end of depression when I was born. But they went through a really rough time. There just wasn't food and but I was fortunate and well, I don't remember it because I was at the tail end of depression, but I've heard them talk about it and how they had to manage food and and what, how they did and it was amazing. They, they, the old, saying that they say now it is what it is. They took that and they never said that is what it is. They lived it that and they never said that it is what it is. They lived it and that's how they got through it. They didn't question. They just it is what it is. We would say. And my aunt would say whatever you have to do, God will give you the strength to do it. So that's why I grew up under that.

Speaker 1:

I love that because they call them the greatest generation because they did go through so much. They went, like you said went through the Depression, the First World War and then later some of them fought in the Second World War.

Speaker 2:

Most of them of my age.

Speaker 1:

Well, I was born during that Right you're kind of in between, yeah, in between, so I can remember a little of both.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love that. You know. Unfortunately, like I couldn't find somebody from the greatest generation to come on to the podcast because they'd be not. Dad would have been part of the greatest generation because he was enough years older than you that, yeah, so he was five years older than you, so dad could have come on from the greatest generation. He's who I remember.

Speaker 1:

When I hear people talk about the greatest generation, I think of dad because, like, he lived this whole life being in the military he was military, police and all of that before he came to the children's home, and so I can see why they call them the greatest generation, because they just had this umph about them that I don't know that my generation or the ones behind me have today, like, just this, put your head down and do it, and there's some not so great things about that philosophy, but yeah, just really hard workers, and so when I think of the greatest generation, I think of dad for sure. How do you remember the adults in your life dealing with hard things and you just kind of alluded to it a few minutes ago but how would they deal with things like death and hard things?

Speaker 2:

Well, let me say this they didn't share their feelings at all. Now, they may when they got behind closed doors, but they didn't share things and they didn't go in detail. So when something happened, they just went ahead and did what they needed to do. During World War two. I was eight years old when the the war started at Pearl Harbor. I couldn't remember hearing it over the radio, but I didn't understand it. Of course I was seven or eight years old, but I did find out.

Speaker 2:

The rationing started. The gas was rationed, the eggs and milk and butter, and the ladies had to give up their hosiery, their nylon hose and just so many things that you didn't have. You know, you just made do and you didn't have the real butter. Anything you had is probably generic, as we would say today, but they, it was all rationed and you were. Then they gave it. You had a booklet, they gave out rationing stamps, and so they gave the rationing books to how many was in the family? So? So that's how they was able to say, okay, now this family gets da-da-da, and the next family maybe not so much. So I remember those rationing books, seeing them, and they had them, and then when they went, but once they spent all that book they couldn't get any more until the next time they gave them out. So they really took care and were very careful with that rationing book to try to stretch it to make it worse. It's just I'll have to. This is funny.

Speaker 2:

Butter was rationed well. I had an uncle, though, and he was a butter love butter, and so of course he couldn't get butter. So they had this thing that they had. I forget the name of it was. It was a white glob, is the way I looked at it, and you put yellow coloring in it. And then my aunt had one of those molds, the old-timey molds that you make a mold of butter. She'd put that in there and put it on the table, and he ate that every single time. He never knew.

Speaker 2:

Never even noticed the difference one time I, after he was elderly, I had to share with him you like that, didn't you, uncle luther? And he'd say wasn't mad. I said I hate to tell you and I I shouldn't have told him, I just had to see his reaction. He went.

Speaker 1:

That's not true yeah, that that is fantastic and so, yeah, so, so you remember, and I I've always wondered, because of the rationing, like you know, I think of teenage boys and I know that you you had brothers, but they but there's so much of an age difference, but I think how in the world did they feed the teenage boys? Like it was rationing, you know?

Speaker 2:

well, a lot of people back then too lived on farms and they were able to. That's how they supplied their food, and then, if they had any at all left over, they could give it to somebody else or sell it or whatever wow, that's that I just can't and I don't know that anybody in this part of why we're doing this podcast?

Speaker 1:

because we want people of today.

Speaker 1:

My generation, I'm gen x, your grandkids generation, they're millennials and the great grand and great grandchildren that are gen gen z and then so, like in your family alone, you have like five generations, and so I think that we can learn from you and and there's not very many 91-year-olds that I can bring my podcast stuff to and you actually be able to have a conversation with me, and so I'm so grateful that you're doing this for us today. You mentioned to me that the adults in your life did not talk about the hard things. Your generation is called the silent generation for the same reason. Yes, did you just learn that by by what you watched?

Speaker 2:

well, you watched your adults and that was, that was a normal day for you. If they didn't talk about whatever was bothering them, I don't know if they just didn't want to maybe burden a child, or they were just very, as you say, very silent. They didn't come out with her. Now, I don't know what happened when they had closed doors with the husband and the wife I'm sure they talked about stuff then, but no, you just did whatever you were told.

Speaker 2:

I would never in my lifetime as a little girl ever say why. You just knew whatever they said, they meant it and you did it.

Speaker 1:

Well, you taught us that and that's a good thing to learn. So, during that time and I'm writing my dissertation on some of this stuff and so learning the history of how we treat psychiatric illnesses because they existed then, right, yes, they did, and what people did, and I don know if, if you have a memory of this, but they sent those people away yes, they did do you remember that?

Speaker 2:

you don't remember that no, not till, I was older got you and so as you.

Speaker 1:

So you just kind of went through your life and hard things happened, and so tell us about, like, who raised you?

Speaker 2:

well, you want me to start while.

Speaker 1:

I was there, okay, yeah, let me go back to that, yeah.

Speaker 2:

You didn't pay any attention to it, because that's the everyday living. You live with people that didn't talk about all this, so I wouldn't hear about it. We would just say, oh, okay, that's whatever it might be, but no, they did not share.

Speaker 1:

Let me ask you, before you answer, who raised you? Do you remember struggling with anything as a child or as a teenager, and then because I learned this from you pressing things down? Do you have any memories of that? Well, I have to tell you what?

Speaker 2:

what started the memories? Well, when I was you want me to tell that when I was three years old, my mother passed away. There were 11 children in our family and I was the last one. I was number 11 and, uh, after she was buried, my sister, who was three years older than me. They gave her to an aunt and uncle that lived in another town. With no explanation, she didn't know where she was going, she just got in this car and they went. Well, I was supposed to go to the other aunt and uncle because I was three. Well, my older sister took care of me. She was like my mother, she begged and she begged. Please don't send her away. Well, he, my dad, let me stay a year longer. But then, when I was four, I had to go to the aunt and uncles. Back then, you didn't even know where you were going. They came and got me and put me in a car, and I don't think I'd ever been in a car. Oh, I thought that was the neatest thing.

Speaker 2:

They let me sit in the front seat and I thought, oh my. And we stopped at an uncle who had a store, a grocery store, and they lived upstairs. We went upstairs and my aunt had prepared lunch and I remember, even while I ate the best green beans I'd ever eaten, they had green beans. Well, they had more too, but that's what I remember. Then we went to the road over the mountain to where I was going to live. So I didn't know anything, I didn't know where we were going and I didn't even ask, I just looked at everything. So we got there, we went up the steps and we went in the front door and I happened to see that my other aunt had a little box and it had. What little few clothes I had was in that box. And when she set that box down, I knew, I knew I'd never go back home because my clothes were sitting right there and I don't.

Speaker 2:

I remember the one thing that night they had my sister stay with me. So maybe, be comfort to me, I cried all night long. I remember that's plain as day. But I didn't cry for my mother, I cried for my sister, ruth that took care of me all the time. And my aunt, oh, she had a beautiful doll. She gave it to me and I threw it down. It broke to smithereens and I bet she thought I don't know what I'm getting into with this child. That wasn't what I wanted. I want my family, my brothers and sisters, and here I am in a strange place. I don't want to stay in this place.

Speaker 2:

But, needless to say, after the next morning my sister had to go to school. So I sat out on the front porch by myself and my other aunt's car drove up and Betty and my sister got in that car going to school, and I watched it pull out and it was like the end of the world. I could tell you right now how I felt inside. It was the most lonely, hurting I can't even describe it of how I felt. But guess what? I didn't cry anymore like that. Very quickly, at four years old, I knew okay, I guess I'm going to have to live in this house. And the people were great. You know it wasn't them, but it wasn't my family.

Speaker 1:

It just wasn't your family, that's right yeah.

Speaker 2:

So anyway, that's how.

Speaker 1:

I handled it.

Speaker 2:

I just went in and did whatever. I was told they were very good to me. I don't want anybody to think they weren't, but they weren't my home and they weren't with my family.

Speaker 1:

But, I said okay to myself, I just went ahead and did whatever they told me to do, and so you have done very well.

Speaker 2:

I pushed down all my feelings.

Speaker 1:

You pushed down all your feelings.

Speaker 2:

Well, they don't go away.

Speaker 2:

I'll say this, and I don't mean to interrupt you, but you know, god works in mysterious ways and it says the things that have happened to us is for the furtherance of the gospel. And so what happened to me? As a child, I used to being able to help children at the children's home, but you know, know what? I kept that same feeling and finally I thanked the Lord for it because I really knew what they felt like when they came in there. So God's hand was even in something that wasn't, I thought at the time, good.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I remember when I first got to the children's home and I've told the story on this podcast about how I first met you I was hiding in a little alcove and I remember you just kind of poking your head in there. But I knew in that moment that you understood, because my mom had given me away, not at four years old, but my mom had given me away. But I definitely emulated how I saw you deal with things and I so I have a propensity to push things down and pretend that they don't exist not, and I think that that served us both well. Right like we, you and I both survived well into it. I mean, you're 91 and I'm I'll be 53 in a couple days, and so we we did all right. But have you seen any times in your adult life when you've kind of had to go back and and deal with some things and and not push things down?

Speaker 2:

probably it was at the children. Someone would get new children and I could see they were. You know they did it too and I thought you know this is not a good thing to do, but I still did it and I'll tell you later on how I came out of it go ahead and tell us now well, I married the most wonderful man in the world.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I was 16 years old and he was 21 and we, the night of the senior prom, we went to get married. But anyway, this wonderful man that I married, he taught Because if we'd have a discussion about something, and maybe I didn't, we didn't argue. But maybe I would like to have said something, I didn't say it. So he taught me we wouldn't get up from the table until I expressed my feelings Very hard for me to do, but gradually he really helped me. Okay me, okay. You know he wouldn't let me not do it so.

Speaker 2:

I give the credit to him. That helped me to realize that you can talk about things, and maybe you don't want to, but you should, so, yeah, he was my mentor when it came to that and how cool is that?

Speaker 1:

you know dad, dad mc McGowan and plenty of children's home people will be listening to this podcast, but Dad McGowan would cry at the drop of a hat and I remember you and I looking at him like, oh no, there's Dad crying again and we never did, that's right.

Speaker 1:

Now I'm different. Now I'll cry now, but that's because I had to deal with some of that stuff that I pushed down and I am glad that I learned to to cope later because it was just too much right, like that four year old memory that you have, I have at 15 or 14 and it's the same right and it's just, it's just too much. And so I'm not at all advocating that people not deal with their trauma and not dealing with things like being abandoned, but I am advocating that if people that are listening to this podcast know people like us, they need to be the dad my gallon and come alongside and say, no, look, we're going to talk about this. Be the dad my gallon and come alongside and say, no, look, we're going to talk about this. I'm here, I'm a safe place for you to talk to me, and so that's what I want listeners to take away from.

Speaker 1:

This is like you and I used the repression of those those, those bad things as a coping mechanism because we just went on and you know, you got married to dad and you guys had a full life. You have two beautiful girls and grandchildren and great-grandchildren, and I just think it's so cool that dad McGowan, part of the greatest generation, probably also taught not to talk about his feelings, had the wisdom that could have only come from the Lord to say no, this is not how we are going to operate. And so at the children's home it was a little bit like we had mom, who, kind of you, had a stoic face and just kind of always moved forward and you know all other things, and then we had dad and it was just this great balance for us to look at and be like. There are times when it's just too much and you can't talk about it, you might not even be able to deal with it, but then there was Dad on the other side. Right, definitely, yeah, so he was definitely a gift.

Speaker 1:

I did not know that you guys got married on your senior prom night that's fantastic or on his senior prom night, I'm guessing, no, it was mine, oh, yours.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so you guys get married. Okay, so you guys get married. Dad's in the army. You know you have children, one of whom was born when dad was still in Korea. Dad came back and you guys established your life. How did your upbringing influence the way you raised your kids?

Speaker 2:

I have to think about that a minute. It taught me the three words that you whoever's listening and do it if you just say I love you, and then hard times, I'm telling you this because I love you. Yeah, of course, as they probably thought. No, it stuck with me and to this day, if I talk to either one of them on the phone, we always end it with I love you, and that breaks a lot of barriers down.

Speaker 1:

Yeah it really does, and you shouldn't be able to do that with your upbringing. For those of us that are super special, we get. Has anyone told you today, like I, probably once a week get that text from you. Has anyone told you today, like I, probably once a week get at that text from you? Has anyone told you today, and that's, and that I know what that means? It means? Has anyone told you that you look, that they love you and that was life-changing for me and so it.

Speaker 1:

So I'm so grateful that dad came along and said hey, we're not going to stuff, or you know we're gonna, as things can't come up, because things would have come up right, like you would have had a fear of him leaving, for example, because you had been abandoned, and so for dad to sit and be, set that steady hand for you, I think it changed the story, because the story so often with people of your generation is they raised baby boomers and of course, the baby boomers went and rebelled and did all kinds of things that was never even thought of in your generation. Um, but you, but dad, kind of broke that.

Speaker 2:

We don't talk about it well, let me tell you what he would say. And they'd say why did you get married and her so young? He said I wanted to raise her the way I wanted her to be.

Speaker 1:

And he did a good job in doing that, and so I love that for those of you people listening if you were part of, or if you have parents, most people, a lot of people listening, will have parents that are of your generation and I think that you did the best you could with hardly anything right. Like you raised your own two girls and then you raised all of us having not really been raised. You did not have a mother's presence in your life, and how remarkable that is and that can only be the hand of the Lord. Like you have that strong memory at four years old and yet thousands of children in this world are better off because you understood what it was like when they came in.

Speaker 2:

You know well, that's why I settled with being given away and not be bitter as I was, you know, adult and all. I did think about that and I thank the lord that he let me be in a bad situation. All things work for good, but it doesn't say all things are good can you say that again? Well, because the bible says all things are good to him. That love the lord. It doesn't say they are good. They all things aren't good, but they are work for here.

Speaker 1:

The good of you, right and that's that is so huge. Huge, because people like to quote that verse a lot. All things work together for good to them that love God and are called according to.

Speaker 2:

His service.

Speaker 1:

But it doesn't say all things are good and I think that's a real sticking point as we talk about on this podcast lots of people dealing with hard things is probably the reason why that verse in Philippians that you quoted a few minutes ago is my life versus, because you probably beat it into me. But that verse says Paul says I want you to know that the things have happened to me have really happened to further the gospel, and that was true with me, because I'm living proof of that the first time we went into the ministry in Georgia, this little three-year-old girl was left.

Speaker 2:

Her mother had left her, and she just cried and cried and it was getting dark and I knew the stars would be coming out. So I said, hey, you want to go with me outside and we'll look at the stars? And she just cried and cried. I said, let's go look. Well she, let me take her by the hand. And we walked down this walkway and her name was Kathy and I said, kathy, you know what, when I was a little girl your age, just like you, my mother went to heaven too. I said see those stars up there. I said they're up there in heaven and I know it's very sad for you. And she looked up at me with her big old eyes and she said your mother died too. And I said, yes, yes, she did honey.

Speaker 1:

And then I said some more things to her, but she bonded with me immediately because she said she really, oh, okay so and I know I have, I I bonded with you immediately for that reason and one of the questions I had written down to ask you and we really already kind of talked about it was that how did that experience influence your experience at the children's home? And you know, I think that you just knew and you understood. Well, that's why it happened to me.

Speaker 2:

And you know, as I was an adult and then went into the children's home ministry, I thanked the Lord for what I went through, but I hadn't thanked him for that. I hadn't figured it out until then. Right, I got a slow learner. But then, when I went in there, I thought you know what the things that were meant bad turned out to be good? Oh man, like Joseph, you know what the things that were meant bad turned out to be good.

Speaker 1:

Like joseph, you know when he would they got rid of him, and then they had the phantom and he gave him food and so things.

Speaker 2:

The lord uses all these things. At the time you, you're hurt, you don't want to be that way.

Speaker 1:

And then, as time goes on, then you, eventually, you figure it out and I think that the difference between overcoming difficult things like that and not overcoming difficult things like that is that that attitude of this happened. God doesn't say it is good, but he said he'll work it for my good and I think just surrendering to him like this is a really horror. I mean to hear you tell that story 86 years later, that vivid memory of that four-year-old, five-year-old little girl. Clearly it still imprints on your heart. But I think the difference when we have stories like yours and we have stories like mine is that decision to not let it define us right, exactly, and that takes a while it just doesn't happen.

Speaker 2:

It just comes little by little and as you mature in the Lord too. Of course that's a big thing. But yes, you realize. Okay, okay, god, thank you for that. And when you can get to the place where you have the bad things that's happened to you, but they're in the past, you can honestly go to the Lord and say thank you, jesus, for allowing this to happen.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I believe that with my whole heart. That's what you taught me and I think that was a difference maker for me. It was, yeah, my situation was bad, your situation was bad, but that we don't have to be not only defined by it, but we could be and this is going to sound a little cliche and I don't mean it to but we can be refined by it and it definitely, looking at it through the lens of, I might not ever understand why this happened on this side of heaven, with the exception of things like you can see, you had a children's home ministry. I can see I have this podcast ministry and what I'm doing for work and things like that.

Speaker 1:

I can see God's hand in it. But that doesn't necessarily take away the pain and I just remember you teaching me Amy you've got to take that to Jesus. Like I got chills because I remember you and I have a very fond memory of sitting on these big steps. I remember the church was Colonial Heights Baptist Church in Colonial Heights, virginia. I looked it up because I wanted to try to see if I can get a picture of that steps and I could not find it.

Speaker 1:

But that was the day that your trauma and your pain helped me heal from mine, because I had not told anybody some of those things and my generation is a little bit different. We're not quite as tough as your generation and so you guys can put your head down and not talk about the things that happened to you. And it was a different time. Right, it was a much different time Because by the time I came along along, we weren't worried about wars. You've lived through World War II, korea, vietnam, all the conflicts in Kosovo and Bosnia. You've lived through the Gulf Wars. We're getting on two hands when we talk about the stuff that you've seen in your lifetime.

Speaker 2:

You're talking about wars, world War II, I had a brother, his name was James Well, he was in Manila when the Pearl Harbor happened and he never came home after that. He had just joined up. Anyway, to make a story short, he fought and he was in the Bataan Death March which was I don't even remember how long, but it was very, very long put into prisoner of war camp and I won't go into all of that, but that's where he passed away. Oh, my goodness, I don't know that. I'm visiting.

Speaker 1:

He was 25 years old. And how old were you when?

Speaker 2:

he died. Well, let's say, world War II, I was probably nine, okay, because the Red Cross sent to us a certain kind of paper. It was thin and that's what you could write to your brother or whoever on. That very, very thin paper is what they used and it was very short, because I can remember that my aunt sat me down at the table and she said now here is some paper and I told you, james is a prisoner of war, which I don't know if I really got all that she said, but you're to write him and they will give him the letters. So she got all the family. He never got them, he died before they did. But I can remember that very vividly.

Speaker 1:

Do you remember how the adults responded to that knock on the door, saying James is gone?

Speaker 2:

I wasn't there because they went to my dad. See, I didn't live with my dad so he got it.

Speaker 1:

I got it from my aunt that they told, and I want to step back to your dad for just a second. How old were you when he died? Do you remember?

Speaker 2:

no, I really don't okay. He probably in my 30s. Oh wow, okay I thought no, maybe even I don't know, I'm trying to remember but you were married to dad.

Speaker 1:

Pardon me, you were married to dad oh yes, I had children, wow. So did you have any communication with him or any relationship with him at all after you got to be an adult?

Speaker 2:

not really. If I went to went to see him, we'd just chit-chat, that was it.

Speaker 1:

No.

Speaker 2:

I never had a conversation with him. Do you wish that you had?

Speaker 1:

I don't know, maybe, maybe, but I just accepted that too Right, and this is the point of this series that I'm doing with the podcast is how every generation is different, and so you just kind of moved on.

Speaker 2:

I did not have any respect for him and I never felt like he was quote my dad. He might have been my father, but I never looked at him as a dad. Wow.

Speaker 1:

So a lot of people that have issues like their dad abandoned them struggle with a relationship with god. Was that ever?

Speaker 2:

understanding. No, I didn't have that and I didn't have hatred. I guess I learned from my aunt and uncle.

Speaker 1:

I just accepted okay, the lord took him home and this is what your generation does, and did you accept, like you said, and I think that do. I think that that that generation later needed to figure out how to psychologically handle things differently and better, I'm sure, because you can always learn. You can always learn absolutely, but at the same time, what? What a generation? It is your generation, right and and and so you guys, you know, just have this tenacity about you that I'm grateful that you taught me, but my generation doesn't have it normally, and so I remember you just teaching us, and me in particular, and those steps that we talked about. I remember you saying something to me and this has always stuck with me and I've heard it other places. But I remember you saying to me Amy, you said it two ways. You said, amy, you can let the things that have happened to you make you bitter or you can let it make you better. So you even know.

Speaker 1:

I remember and and you made it better. But because, like you, just didn't give up on me. You know, know, you understand, and I think that, to your point of all things working together for good, your dad leaving you was not good, but the thousands. I think by the time you and dad left the children's home, there were four or five thousand children that had come through those three homes. I happen to be one of them. I happen to be one of them and I am so grateful for that, because your pain absolutely turned into a ministry to us and to me.

Speaker 1:

And I also remember you saying about bitterness.

Speaker 1:

You said, amy, because when I got to the children's home, it didn't that, this stuff didn't stop, the pain didn't stop.

Speaker 1:

My mom was still, you know, doing what she did and and I remember you teach it telling me every time something like that happens, think of it as a brick and you can either build a bridge with that or you can build a wall with that. And I just remember you looking at me saying please don't build a wall. And I never was able to make things right with my mom just because of those circumstances been well covered on this podcast, but I remember just thinking that's the way I want to be with these things that are painful, and I didn't want to be bitter. I didn't want to be bitter and there and there's so many people are, and I believe that I would have been one of those people had you not invested in my life and said when bitterness is not going to make it better, you know and that's a choice, because I had a sister that was the other one that was getting right and she never got past.

Speaker 2:

I mean, she just didn't get past it yeah, and, and, and she was a wonderful lady. Now she went to your other aunt and uncle, right?

Speaker 1:

so I don't know. That's very interesting was was it pretty good for her with her, with your other aunt and uncle, as far as she was?

Speaker 2:

made different than me. She was very quiet where I guess I wasn't. And, yes, well, after she was over there then the uncle that had her passed away, so it was really the aunt that really raised her no, she she was fine, I mean, you would never have known it.

Speaker 1:

Right, because she Pushed it down.

Speaker 2:

But it always stayed with her.

Speaker 1:

I'm really glad you said that because that helps us, it helps the listeners understand. So you did eventually talk about the things to Dad and so if she didn't, and if she just kind of never talked about it and never dealt with it, then you can see why that would, why there's the and and, honestly, you know, my sister there is not, and I don't have a problem saying it on this podcast, because she is who she is and she's done what she's done and she's made the decisions that she's made. But we could not be any different if we tried, and I I firmly believe it's because not only you but dad and house parents at the children's home and later, when I went to Clearwater Christian College, people just kept pounding into me that I could not let those experiences make me bitter, and I'm grateful for that because I'm not bitter. Even to this day I'm not bitter, and I'm grateful for that because I'm not bitter. Even to this day I'm not bitter. I have my issues. I have my issues, but bitterness is not one of them.

Speaker 1:

Okay, mom, so as we get towards the end and I definitely want to give the microphone to you at the very end, but I did want to ask you a question because this opportunity is gold for me to have. I will always remember this night, the night before Thanksgiving, when you and I sat down in your house and we talked about this and I'll have this on audio forever. But I, I, I'm jealous of people that didn't have you in their life. Some of my friends have perfect families not perfect families, but they grew up in two parent homes but they don't have this, you ask about and this is just a very small thing of how you deal with things.

Speaker 2:

When I went to live with my last name, miss Snyder well, the uncles were Snyder, so I didn't have to have a different name, but they were older and they had not had children, although they loved them and had other kids just come and stay and all. But this is so funny. It was cold. Well, I had to wear those long socks that you turn down at the knee and I looked at all the girls that was going to school with me and they had theirs down to their ankles and I thought I'm not wearing these socks like that.

Speaker 2:

So I went in the bathroom and I rolled them all the way down, make them look like the socks were down there, and then, before I got home, I rolled them back up. I mean that's just something of a kid.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

But it was important to me at the time. I didn't want to be different. Well, I already felt some difference, because they all have mothers and fathers and all that you know, but I can remember the sock issue.

Speaker 1:

That's hilarious and what I think is really funny about that, michelle will listen to this podcast. So remember when, michelle, she was like 12 years old and she was still and you had to be 13 to wear the, to wear hose yes and and so Michelle had to wear those socks that you're talking about, where you pull all the way up to your knees.

Speaker 1:

So she's going to really laugh at the fact that you went to school and pushed yours down. But I think you just bring. A good point is that, even though your mom gave you away and you were living with your aunt and uncle, you were still a normal child. But I didn't feel normal.

Speaker 2:

But you didn't feel normal, normal that you didn't feel, not that that's at that time. No, I didn't. I wanted to be, wanted to be like the others. Well, you know, that can be good or bad, right right, right, and I had great friends and all but that. That was a vivid thing in my life.

Speaker 1:

How did you come to know the lord well?

Speaker 2:

we. I went to sunday school in church every sunday from the time I. I did when I was home, but my aunt and uncle sent me they didn't go, but I did and I remember very clearly. My sister said you're 12 years old now, you need to quote join the church.

Speaker 2:

So I did Not. A Bible was open. This was a big church, southern Baptist Church, and they knew how to say it. I never read a Bible verse. They just filled out what's your address, what's your phone, church, and they knew how to say it. I never read a Bible verse. They just filled out what's your address, what's your phone number and all that stuff, but they never asked anything.

Speaker 2:

They didn't have the Bible. So what happened to me? I thought, well, if I died I'd go to heaven, because I did all this stuff at 12 years old. Well, certainly that's not true, but I thought it was so. Anyway, after we were married and all, and we had children and we moved to Indiana, we went to the First Baptist Church of Covington, Indiana, had a wonderful pastor. Well, he preached the gospel very plainly, what you do, how you get saved, and, da-da-da, Well, I had never done that. So that just bugged me and bugged me and I didn't do it. Then I reverted back. I'd like to talk about this, but I don't think I will, I'll just have to listen. So, anyway, then it hit me and I can remember very plain my husband was at work and the girls were in school and I had a green chair with the big arms and I knelt by that green chair and I asked the Lord to come into my heart and save me. And that's how I got saved, by myself.

Speaker 1:

By yourself. You led yourself to the Lord. No.

Speaker 2:

But I didn't get baptized right away. And then we had to move. Well, the Lord called us at Georgia in the ministry, and my brother-in-law had the church. And then it started bothering me because I had been baptized, but it was on the wrong side of salvation. So I thought I better get baptized. So I went forward that day and he said what are you coming for? And I said I need to be baptized. And so, anyway, he baptized me. So I've I said okay, now I can meet the Lord and meet the Lord.

Speaker 1:

You did I. I mean, wow, that's so mind-blowing to me.

Speaker 1:

Um, because you made that decision, so many lives were changed a long time ago, a very long time ago, but, but it just, it speaks to the perseverance of the gospel. It does right like that was a long time ago and we're sitting across from each other with you know, 38 years in between us. I only know that because you were were, you were born the exact same year. My own mom was born, my, my, my mother, you are my mom, my mother was born and, and so 38 years later, you know, a kid is born, uh, in Jacksonville, florida, that one day is going to come under your ministry, and um had a very similar situation, similar Um.

Speaker 1:

I'm not even sure I've ever even said how I got saved on on the podcast, but but I, as you know, was a good kid and came from from a church in Jacksonville where I was very active in the youth group and I knew all the scriptures and everything, and in those days they just scared us to death, half to death, and so I remember going to sleep every night. Lord, if I'm not saved, save me. But I have a very distinct memory of us being in Hartsville, south Carolina, on tour at John Wesley United Methodist Church and you always had me stand up on the front row with the little girls and I remember calling somebody to come up and going down and kneeling down and you came to pray with me and you asked me and I said, mom, I think I need to be saved.

Speaker 2:

And everybody was shocked because I was like, because you were the good girl, I was the good kid. The good girls don't make the difference. Jesus Christ is the difference.

Speaker 1:

That's right, and I do think that after that I was able to, because then that was that same summer, we went to a camp meeting where I cannot remember the pastor's name in Pennsylvania, lancaster, pennsylvania. I can see him in my head. He fell in the shower, but anyway, he preached a sermon on bitterness, and between you and him I decided you know that I would not let these things destroy me. And so I just think it's so interesting that someone of your generation, who you're literally called the silent generation, because you learn from the greatest generation, we just don't talk about these things. It is what it is like, what you said, but yet, uh, dad mcgowan comes along and says no, um, I'm, I, we're married and I'm your husband and we're not getting up from this table until you talk. And so that's the takeaway I think from my perspective in this conversation is Well, one thing I wanted to say too.

Speaker 2:

You asked me about raising my girls and all. There's one thing Always say, whatever the situation is, first, no matter if you have to correct them or whatever it is. First just say I love you and then go into, you know, maybe the correction or what you needed to do. I never heard the word I love you till I met my husband, you met dad and that, and I thought, did he say that you know? But no, there again. I guess they just didn't say it and I knew my aunt and uncle loved each other, just by the way they. I surprised that they, but I never heard any affectionate word, particularly, but I knew they did. So you know.

Speaker 1:

And I'm glad you brought that up, because that is part of the, I was going to say, the issue with your generation. I don't mean that. I know what you mean, but but it defines like you were just, you just knew. That's that they loved you, right well, I'll have to enter.

Speaker 2:

I'll say this one thing I guess that made me it. I couldn't figure it out. And then again I thought I guess they really love each other. They didn't call each other by their names. She called him old man and he called her old women a woman. But it was a sweet. I mean, what are you a woman? I?

Speaker 1:

mean, it was a sweet time. It wasn't a beautiful woman, it was so sweet.

Speaker 2:

That's what they called each other, and I thought that was so strange. I just never heard anybody say that to each other, but it was a show of their love. That's just the way they did it.

Speaker 1:

It's just remarkable. It's remarkable that, with a vivid memory of being given away that young, that you just moved on through life and that you hadn't heard anybody say you loved, now I was thinking I don't remember, with the exception of maybe my aunt and uncle being told that they loved me until I came to the children's home. And so I think that love changes so many things it does absolutely. You know it can cover a lot of hurt and a lot of wrongs, and I think that's what happened for you and for me.

Speaker 2:

And I like that short verse God is love. Yeah exactly, and that's the greatest love we can have is God's love.

Speaker 1:

And he is not silent right?

Speaker 2:

No, he is not.

Speaker 1:

And so, while I'm talking to someone who was basically brought up to not talk about things and later learn to talk about things, it's just, it's remarkable to me that the Lord is just so faithful in all of these things, and so go ahead.

Speaker 2:

One thing that I heard our pastor say here one time. He was preaching a sermon and he said when God is silent, it doesn't mean he's still. He's still working behind the scenes, and that helped me a lot, Wow.

Speaker 1:

When God is silent, it doesn't mean that he's not working, and oftentimes probably means that he is. You know, and and so I. Just, this whole episode speaks to the difference that jesus can make absolutely and the lives.

Speaker 1:

I mean, we're sitting here on the wednesday night before thanksgiving two, two people that were given away by the person that well, your mom didn't give you away, but given away by a parent and, um, our lives are drastically different because of the completed work of jesus on the cross well, I never would have made it if I hadn't had jesus right and that might lead into your answer for the.

Speaker 1:

For the final question is you are 91 years old. This, this will this podcast will be listened to, you know, and as long as I decide to leave it up, which will probably be forever, what advice would you give to those younger than you as it pertains to these hard things and how we deal with them now?

Speaker 2:

First of all, you have to realize it's okay that you think that, but you don't want to stay that. And I think the most thing, of course, when you get saved and you ask Jesus to come into your heart and then whenever an issue comes up, he's right there beside us. But we just have to remember that he's there. And we all face hard things, even though we're saved. That doesn't save us from hard living and hard things that happen. But I can tell you right now every time I've had to face something like that, I have known I have felt that Jesus was by my side. So you have to communicate with him. You can't wait until just. Oh, I need you, jesus.

Speaker 2:

I mean you just on a daily basis. I know everyone's so busy, but just take time. For me it's of a morning, but it might not be for whoever. But take time and just talk to jesus, read the scripture and then, if you have questions about what you just read, ask him and the holy spirit will reveal that, what it means to you personally and that is my life thing that has carried me through 91. You've done that 91, but in 91. But, it, just it works.

Speaker 1:

Well, and you found something, and people on the podcast have heard me say what Dad taught us.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I've told it to.

Speaker 1:

When I walked in the door you showed me where Dad had written On that yellow piece of paper.

Speaker 1:

On that yellow piece of paper stay in church, stay in the word and stay on your knees. I have one more question for you. So, mom, thank you First of all for being here today and I think that, uh, what you've said, and I will that that, that line that you said he didn't say it is good, but it doesn't mean it is good, but it will all work together for good. I think it's so powerful. So, thank you for being here today. You're very welcome. I take it an honor to be here today.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you, and so I only have one more question for you.

Speaker 2:

Has anybody told you today, I gratefully can say yes, I've heard those words today.

Speaker 1:

Okay, well, I'm going to. Nobody's told me. So I'm going to tell you that I love you and I love you very much. I know you do, and I'm so grateful. Hey guys, thank you so much for listening. I hope that you enjoyed that conversation with Mama Gallen as much as I enjoyed interviewing her. It was quite the honor, and this is something that I will forever be glad that I have. I also hope that you listened to her when she said that their type of their way, their brand of dealing with trauma didn't work, that she ultimately had to find her way through that, and we all have to ultimately find our way through this.

Speaker 1:

And so now we are wondering the silent generation raise, a group of people that we know as Baby Boomers, and we will likely have a couple Baby Boomers on the podcast to tell us how they experienced trauma, and I really would like to try to find a family that we can pick up at Baby Boomers and go all the way down through the generations. And so these are things and ideas that I have. As you guys know, I am in grad school writing a dissertation, so what comes next will be a baby boomer episode, yet to be determined, and so we are hanging in there with the Wednesdays with Watson podcast through grad school. It has not been easy, so thank you for those of you who do listen If you are inclined and you see something on social media, share about the podcast so that other people can also learn how to navigate these roads of trauma. So we will be back in two weeks and before I leave, you know what I'm going to say.

Speaker 1:

You are seen, you are known, you are heard, you're loved and you're oh, so, so valued. See you guys in two weeks. So glad with every breath that I am in. Oh, I'm gonna sing of the goodness of God. I'm gonna sing, I'm gonna sing. Oh God, there's no more life you have been made for. Oh, I'm gonna sing Of the goodness of God. Oh, I'm gonna sing Of the goodness of God. Yeah, I love your praise For all my days. Thank you, lord, for all my days.

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Amy Watson

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