Wednesdays With Watson: Faith & Trauma Amy Watson- PTSD Patient-Trauma Survivor

Millennial Generation: Finding Strength in Vulnerability and Community with Lydia Garner

• Amy Watson: Trauma Survivor, Hope Carrier, Precious Daughter Of The Most High God • Season 7 • Episode 10

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Lydia Garner returns to share her insights on coping with grief and trauma, focusing on her experiences as a Millennial dealing with the loss of her son. Through her journey, she emphasizes the importance of vulnerability, gratitude, and open conversations about mental health across generations.

• Lydia shares the impact of 9/11 on her as a teenager 
• Understanding how her upbringing shaped her resilience 
• The cultural shift surrounding mental health in the Millennial generation 
• Experiences of postpartum depression and the need for candid dialogue 
• Acknowledging grief while finding hope and gratitude amidst loss 
• The significance of connection and support in healing 
 
Remember to reach out if you're struggling; you are not alone. Dial 988 in the States or contact a crisis hotline in your country.
Song : "Goodness of God" used by permission muscibed.com subscription.

You ARE:
SEEN KNOWN HEARD LOVED VALUED

Speaker 1:

All my days I've been held in your hands, From the moment that I was.

Speaker 2:

Hey everybody and welcome back to the Wednesdays with Watson podcast. As I have said for a very long time now almost five years I am so glad you are here. I fully understand that time is something that we are not getting back of. It is January of 2025, and we are in a season of the podcast where we are just talking about trauma and you. We had our first episode in our generational series with Mama Gallen, the Silent Generation. I will link that in the show notes. Series with Mama Gowan, the Silent Generation. I will link that in the show notes.

Speaker 2:

Today I'm so excited to do a dual goal of the podcast and that is to bring a former guest back. Lydia Garner is with us today and we are going to get an update on her story. If you have not heard her story, it is absolutely also linked in the show notes. But Lydia and her husband Cameron lost their nine-year-old son just over a year ago and we want to talk to her and see how she's doing. But, in the spirit of the season of the podcast that we're in, I also want to know how her generation handles trauma. What do they remember about significant events of their generation? So enjoy this millennial update episode with Lydia Garner. Let's drop in to that episode now. All right, guys. So we are back with actually lydia.

Speaker 2:

Hey, I need to tell you something I actually haven't told you this, and so your episode last year was the most listened to episode of the wednesdays with watson podcast for 2024 wow, wow. Yeah, so so your people in New Zealand showing, showing up for us, for sure, it's so, it's so funny when because you guys, so right now, lydia, we are doing this podcast interview it is 6am in Florida, and how old is it? How old? Well, it's 6am in Florida, clearly. What time is it? What time is it in New? Zealand?

Speaker 3:

So, it's midnight here the same day. Well, technically the next day, I guess, Right so?

Speaker 2:

it's actually almost Wednesday there, so you are, and it's Tuesday morning here, so you are truly spending your Wednesday with Watson. So, no, seriously. So your story, your family story about losing your son Zeke, just resonated with so many people as you were so honest on that episode, about that journey, interviewing different people from different generations so that we all can learn, first of all, that your generation, which is the millennial generation, I believe, can learn about you, but then my generation and generation before me can learn about millennials. Millennials in particular get a little bit of a bad rap. Now you are on the cusp.

Speaker 2:

What year were you born? Yes, I was born in September 87. So, yeah, you know, in some circles we, we could call you a. What did they call them? Um, the millennial and the gen x. There's a, the, the zennial no, that's anyway. There's. There's a combination of those of the two generations, or I like to call people your age like a geriatric millennial, um, just just a lot of fun. And so, yeah, you're barely barely into to the next generation from Gen X, because Gen X ends in 1985 and so yeah and so well.

Speaker 2:

So, before we actually get an update on how you are doing with the loss of that precious young man, I, I do want to talk a little bit because I think that you bring so much wisdom in so many veins, if I'm being honest with you in regards to life and the things of the Lord in particular. So you were born in 1987. What is the first significant? Either global, national, like outside of your church, your family? What is the first significant, what we would consider traumatic event? Do you remember?

Speaker 1:

Oh, wow.

Speaker 3:

I mean so outside of my family, you mean.

Speaker 1:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, probably 9-11.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's what I thought you were going to say. I was.

Speaker 3:

I was like 15, but my mom was in the air at the time and we got called in the middle of the night in New Zealand and my cousin said hey, just letting you know this has happened. Uh, I know that Lynette's flying and she had my baby brother with her and I think she was one of the last flights to even be allowed to land in America, over in LA, and we didn't know if they were okay and it was pretty scary because we didn't know for several hours, so that was actually quite a big impact.

Speaker 2:

Wow. So were you in New England or New England Again, it's 6am. Were you in New Zealand Um when when this happened, or were you in a issue? So she was flying to America.

Speaker 3:

Yes, so we lived in New Zealand and she was flying back. I think my grandpa had had a stroke and she was trying to get back to him and then they got stranded and the only reason they were allowed to land is because the plane didn't have enough fuel to go anywhere else wow so they were at near the end of their flight.

Speaker 3:

You know it's a big long flight from New Zealand and they got stranded there for a couple days and it was pretty traumatic for her because she didn't know what to do in LA.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean I can't even imagine. I mean I remember that day. Well, I was in my 20s and for my generation, the kind of the thing that I remember that doesn't even compare on the magnitude in terms of loss of life. But I was about 12 or 13 when the space shuttle blew up and I lived in Jacksonville at the time and we could see it in the air, and so I remember how that affected me as a child. But I'm curious for you, as we really do want to dive deep into how different generations deal with trauma. My generation we just kind of put our heads down and do the thing. Can you recall as a 15-year-old how you were feeling with something so inconceivable? I mean, even as an adult? I remember the 9-11 attacks, obviously, and I remember just staring at the TV for what turned into weeks, like it just was so hard to grasp. But I'm curious how you experienced it as a 15-year-old, because I would have been in my 20s. How did you experience, I mean, besides, obviously, the fear of your mom?

Speaker 3:

right for sure, I think yeah, as you said, it was just inconceivable. It you know as you're watching it, and then I think we were watching when the second one hit and it was like how, how is this happening? Um, and even you mentioning the space shuttle, like I know that mom and dad were affected by that because they were in florida at the time and that reminded me that probably about a year earlier, we had watched was it the columbia take off in florida?

Speaker 3:

so we were on furlough and we'd seen it take off and then we were driving through arlington cemetery, we were on furlough and we'd seen it take off and then we were driving through Arlington Cemetery when it was supposed to be coming back and so that we had this personal connection We'd just seen it take off a couple weeks earlier and then to hear that it wasn't coming through and then that there were pieces and in this somberness of going through the cemetery as well, which is already very somber, it was just surreal and like so actually more than 9-11, I suppose this was a very personal connection, because we'd seen it go up, we were listening to it as it was reentering and as we drove through DC there were all of these military vehicles everywhere and we didn't know why.

Speaker 3:

It was quite scary driving down the highway because there's these military vehicles on the overpasses, because they didn't know what was going on. It was like wow, yeah, it was so sad and I think for mom and dad to have that be the second event of having a space shuttle have issues was quite dramatic. That personal connection of having watched it and having pictures of it taking off behind us I've forgotten about the second one.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, you would have been old enough to remember. I can't remember the name of that one either, but that's the one that kind of disintegrated when it came in to the Earth's atmosphere. Yeah, Wow. And so tell me a little bit.

Speaker 2:

So your family of origin for those people who have not heard the original or your first episode, your family of origin tell us a little bit about your parents and kind of the mindset in your home about hard things, maybe what we would now call traumatic things, Like I just listened to the conversation with your mom on your own podcast and I will link that in the show notes, but there were some things that she was saying she mentioned in that podcast that I had no idea about.

Speaker 2:

And so you guys definitely, as a family, went through some hard things when you were here in Florida. But tell us a little bit about that family of origin and what was the culture like in your home when hard things happen and I reference your parents losing their job at the church where I went as a child. I had no idea and I can't imagine how traumatic that must have been for them with two kids. Had no idea and I can't imagine how traumatic that must have been for them with two kids. And so set the scene for us in terms of what did it look like in the Piper household when hard things happened, even even the thing that you just referenced about the, the challenger. You know how did your parents help you walk through that, you guys walk through that. Set that stage for us Like. What does it look like as a little Lydia Piper up, learning how to navigate difficult things that we would consider maybe traumatic?

Speaker 3:

Okay, well, my dad became a Christian as a teenager. He'd had a pretty challenging life. He had 10 brothers and sisters, so he grew up with challenges involved with. You know, they had enough food but it was lower income and um had its challenges and multiple marriages and stuff like that. So he'd grown up with difficulty and then come to know the Lord in a personal way. And my mom had grown up with a steady family and so they both, by the time that we came along, they both had a strong faith and their faith was real and it always has been.

Speaker 3:

And I, as I get older every single day, I am just so thankful for that because I see a lot of families who have like sort of this Christianity light almost, where they say that they're a Christian, but it doesn't come through in their actions necessarily, at least not consistently.

Speaker 3:

And my parents are not perfect and I and I would never, you know, say that, but they showed us that, yes, hard things do happen, but God is in them and he he's not necessarily causing these hard things, but he's able to work good, and I listened to your conversation with Mama Gowan and you know when we, as Christians, remember that God can work all things together for good for them that love him. I was raised with that and just recently I rewatched Pauliana and I've just finished the audio book as well and her playing the glad game despite difficult circumstances. And I've my nickname is Lydiana and I was and I grew up being thankful, finding ways to be thankful even in hardships, and so that's what our home looked like it's like. Yes, hard things might happen. Yes, it might not have been your fault. Sometimes it is your fault, but this is. We just move forward and we try to find gratitude in that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I've always appreciated. Yeah, when Mama Gowan said the Bible doesn't say all things are, how does she word it? She said in that Southern accent he doesn't say all things are good. And you know, and we you and I, having suffered some things in life, have probably heard that verse Romans 828 more than maybe we want to sometimes. But I've always appreciated your parents because they clearly love the Lord, they clearly stand on the truth of scripture. But even watching you guys walk through the loss of Zeke, I've appreciated how like.

Speaker 2:

It's very clear to me how you were raised because I watched the comments on your post from your mom and your dad too. But there's no plug and play, there's no Christian cliche, there's no Bible band-aids. They use scripture and they use the Lord. But there's this acknowledgement, particularly in the loss of Zeke, by both your parents and you, that this is hard and we are grieving, but we don't grieve without hope. And I love that for you because I do think that you probably stand out a little bit from the other people in your generation in the sense that that's your kind of your, your go-to and your default, and I think that you still have those soft people skills that we love in the millennial generation. But with this beautiful honesty, I'm curious, though, about friends that you grew up with, maybe even friends younger than you that maybe you went to school with, or something like that. What were your observations of how they were taught and how they navigated hard things?

Speaker 3:

Well, I do have a lot of really deep heart-to-heart conversations with people.

Speaker 3:

I do have a lot of really deep heart-to-heart conversations with people and like how Mama Gowan, in that previous podcast, said that she didn't know how to articulate the heartaches yeah, she didn't have a safe place to do that until her husband came along, right, I feel like that is actually really, really common and I, as you have noticed, I had a very rare situation where I did grow up, where I did have that safety and I had a very close relationship with my mom and dad and I, especially as I got into my teen years, I had that option to sit in the spa with my mom and dad and I, especially as I got into my teen years, I had that option to sit in the spa with my mom at night.

Speaker 3:

She had back problems, so we had a spa and we could talk about the hard things. And I think a lot of my friends and my peers I don't know how much like kids, cause you don't have those deep conversations necessarily as kids, but as we got older, um, I think a lot of them just didn't have that safety in their relationships to have those um working through things the same way that I did necessarily yeah, and I agree with that.

Speaker 2:

So I, when I taught at Calvary back in 2007, I taught kids that were born in, you know, 89, 90.

Speaker 2:

So a little bit younger than you, but what I found that really tracks with what I observed in those students, in the sense that so they are being raised by my generation, generation X, who were feral cats, like you know.

Speaker 2:

We literally were told to drink out of water hoses and don't come in until the streetlights come on. Literally, that's kind of who we are, and so I think that our generation wanted so much different for your generation that there is this complete lack of safety, because what we did and I'm living proof of this right now, working six days a week what we did was we just worked, worked, worked, worked, worked, worked, because we wanted better for our kids than what was provided for us and we didn't have the wisdom that your parents had in the sense that you know what. It's my job just to keep them safe and to raise them in the things of the Lord, and the rest is going to work out okay. So I think a lot of people your age or maybe even younger, like you said, don't have that safety or didn't have that safety, I should say. And so for those, do you have any friends? Where that was not true about that, you could observe how they handle hard things now no well, I think so.

Speaker 3:

I was in the because I'm one of the older ones. I guess, as you said, am I one of the older ones, millennials you're a geriatric millennial. Yes, I never know. I'm like I don't even care.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, now you're definitely nonsense yeah, you're definitely on the, on the um, on the older side of the millennials, for sure.

Speaker 3:

I I guess. I guess what I've seen is that I cause I can relate to anybody of any age pretty easily because I just care about them as an individual and I was raised pretty in the country. When we were at my grandma's we were pretty free range, so, um, which obviously had its pros and its cons and I guess, uh, in my generation there is a lot more counseling that came in really well, it's coming in.

Speaker 3:

You know like it's. You know some of my friends are starting to. That is becoming more of a thing, because counseling is becoming more of a thing in general. I think slightly younger the next generation is that below me I think that that's a bit more common gen z is below you, yeah right.

Speaker 3:

So I think I think that they they know more about that side of things. Um, but as far as how I've seen my friends deal with a lot of times that I'm talking to people, they've honestly never said some of the stuff that they say to me ever, because they've never had people asking the right questions and seeing them.

Speaker 2:

That's a good word. They've never had people asking the right questions, and so I hope that listeners will hear you when you say that. Because we like to pick on the millennial generation, at least in America, we do, and then we do, and then we do it in good fun. But you know, this is the generation that got participation trophies, you know, at for sports, and I remember, like field day at school, at victory as a matter of fact, and there were literally three ribbons, you know blue, white and yellow, and everybody else just kind of had to take their ball and go home and figure it out. Right, that was my generation, and then, at least in the States, when our kids were in sports, everybody you know, hey, hey, johnny, here's a trophy just because you put on that uniform.

Speaker 2:

But what I find interesting about what you just said then is if we are so keen to pick on the generation below us as Gen Xers, but we're not asking the right questions, the generation below us as Gen Xers, but we're not asking the right questions, and I think that so in your opinion, let's say that the Lord puts somebody of this generation in our lives. What I hear you saying is that we need to spend time getting to know who these people are and this is not rocket science, but not specific to your generation either. But if we want to impress upon anybody but we're talking about generational stuff here we have to ask the right questions. You ask great questions. So let's say, someone comes upon somebody of this age we're talking so 1985 until I think it's 2000 ish, right, and so 30, 30 down, or you know, 30 to 22, 22 to 30 years old. What do you guys respond to? Just our presence are. What kind of questions do you ask them?

Speaker 3:

Well, I'll give you an example of something that I do, and I have the benefit of having children so I can go to the park and have that icebreaker. It's not uncommon for me to go to a park and to come next to a parent, a mother, say, or even a dad. I'm happy to talk to, to anybody, and I'll go up to them and I'll say something about our kids. That'll be an icebreaker. Maybe our kids are on the swings next to each other. And then I'll say something vulnerable on my end, in a light-hearted way, but also opening up, and I might say something like oh hey, I'm struggling with this. Have you found the solution for this problem? And it opens the door to have a little bit deeper conversation. We're not talking about the weather. We're talking about actually I'm admitting that I'm not perfect and I have struggles and it allows them to be like no, I don't know what I'm doing there either.

Speaker 3:

And it opens that conversation and I've had people like and then we'll talk for half an hour about deeper stuff, and I've had people come to me. I didn't get their details or anything, I didn't see them again for months and then maybe they showed up at a similar event and they'll say oh hi, lydia, do you remember me? We met at the park and it was just exactly what I needed that day and that, to me, is like such a really neat ministry to be able to do is that I'm I'm not a shy person and so I'm able to just talk to people anywhere and just see them, because I've been the mom at the park who was exhausted and depressed and having horribly dark thoughts because I was in that case hormonally just all messed up, and I don't want to leave anybody in that situation not having been seen.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and you know you're speaking my language, because we talk about being seen and known and heard and loved and valued on this podcast. But what I hear you saying something just popped in my head and reminded me of people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. And that's not just a millennial thing. That is, people want to be seen and known and heard and loved and valued, and so I think that anytime we have the opportunity to interact with anybody, but particularly this age group, you know, we want to make sure that they feel valued and that their concerns are heard. Right, because I was just playing around talking about how we pick on millennials, oh, you guys are the ones that got the participation trophies. But if we walk into our interactions with this age group thinking you're a bunch of softies, you can't handle hard things, then we are not serving them at all. Perspective, as somebody in Generation X, as I watch people like you navigate life and you know, and the generation below me, you guys are a lot healthier than than our generation. I find that your generation is better at setting boundaries and many times older people be all. That's just the millennials. You know doing their thing, and you know, millennials don't work, they don't overwork themselves as a rule, and they are not afraid to walk away from relationships that are not healthy, that are, and you know, I hope that they're doing this with some guidance and some wisdom. But my point is is that this is a generation of people who we could really help cultivate that softness that tends to be in this generation and I mean that in a good way, this softness, this receptiveness that this generation can bring from my generation who, just you know, we just go until we stop, and that is especially true about hard things. We just something hard happened, oh okay. Well, let me work harder. Something hard happened, okay, let me go shopping. Something hard happened, let me do this. Something hard happened, let me do that.

Speaker 2:

Where my experience with your generation having a lot of interaction with millennials, like I said, I taught is that your generation is much more open to honoring the hurt, honoring the feelings, honoring the hard stuff and and giving it the respect that it deserves, and so we add Jesus into that. And what an opportunity for this beautiful vulnerability, like you talked about, when you talk to somebody at the park, between you and God and between you and other people is like life is hard, god is good, and that is not just a cliche, but it is an opportunity for us to speak into your life, because there's this receptiveness there that I at least observe that I don't find in other generations among the millennials. It's interesting because I'm in a couple weeks I guess actually in a week, a week from tomorrow I'm going to be teaching a lesson at our church on. We're starting this amazing Bible study For those of you listening in Clearwater, come on Wednesday nights. But it's the questions that Jesus asked, and so the question that I'm teaching on is when Jesus meets the man at the pool of Bethesda who had been there for 38 years, and he says to the man do you want to get well? Which seems like the most crazy question ever. Right, but I think that your generation wants to get well and you're carrying maybe not you, because it seems like your parents kind of broke some generational curses, but a lot of people in this, in your generation, are carrying with it stuff from us, because we're carrying stuff from the generation before us, and so I find that the millennial generation is our best hope for breaking generational curses, especially when it comes to the things of the Lord.

Speaker 2:

That being said, you just mentioned to me you know, and I've heard you talk about this on your own podcast and some on mine, but we didn't deeply explore some of those dark times and it's been interesting because you and I have been friends on Facebook for a hot minute. It's been cool to watch you grow up right in front of my eyes. Frankly, can you tell us a little bit about because there are people listening to this that are in your age group, that had children, that maybe had some significant postpartum issues or who maybe are in this very moment have an earbud in their ear in a dark room, wondering why they even want to stay alive can you share a little bit with us about that time in your life, how you experienced it? Yeah, just how you experienced it. Yeah, just how you experienced it in general, and how the world or your environment around you kind of helped to hurt you.

Speaker 3:

It massively changed, changed me. It changed my perception, because before that I couldn't really understand how anybody could ever get to the point of choosing to end their life. I thought what a selfish thing. How could anybody even go that way Like, how could you possibly think that's better? And so I was.

Speaker 3:

I probably was around 24, 26, 27. And we had had a bunch of moves. My husband had at that point had two major career losses and part of that was a year and a half unemployed because of a recession, and he was over overqualified and it was like the moves, it was lack of sleep, having little ones. I was kind of burning the candle at both ends because the job that he had at the time was he'd get home really late. The only time we could have quality time together alone was after his shift because we had toddlers and baby and so I would stay up late and I would get up very early to try to let him sleep in. So I was getting probably four or five hours a night if that, and you know that's not very sustainable, right, and and I still seemed on the outside because I was also doing an MLM thing. I was very good at it, I'm very good at sales.

Speaker 2:

I love yeah, I bet you were. I love that. Yeah, I bet you were.

Speaker 3:

I love sales, anything that I'm passionate about. I'm very good at doing that. I had like 43 women on my team. I wasn't making much money at all, but I was having fun and I was coaching a bunch of people. So I was doing that.

Speaker 3:

I was using that kind of as a distraction from the difficulties of motherhood as a distraction from the difficulties of motherhood and and I started to have these thoughts of, uh, I'm, I'm not good enough. I'm not a good enough mother, I don't really want to be watching them, because it was more fun to do the MLM stuff. Uh, that was more fulfilling, because here I was getting this encouragement and this rah, rah, rah from my company and from these ladies, and that's a lot more fun than the day to day with the baby and a toddler. Um, so I ended up just getting totally depleted. So mine was depression. It was very, very much related to lack of sleep and I did not know that I was dealing with depression probably for several weeks or several months, I'm not sure, until it got really bad and I was thinking okay, I can let the kids go to the grandmothers, they'll be happy there, nobody's going to miss me, I'm just not a very good mother and all the time I look perfectly normal on the outside. So that hasn't changed.

Speaker 2:

Among the generations. Just a side note, but go ahead.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah. So nobody would have guessed. I didn't even guess. I had no idea. I had no idea I was dealing with depression and, yeah, I was having these feelings but I wasn't associating them to depression until finally I don't know why I just finally got a bit scared of what I was feeling and the ideation and stuff and I finally opened up to my husband, who is safe he's always been very safe and so I freely admit I am very blessed and privileged to have these safe environments and I told him that what I was feeling and I think finally saying it out loud was what made me realize it was depression. And at that point, because it was identified as, hey, this is actually a real threat, I mean it was, it was pretty bad, I was in a pretty if you had a plan.

Speaker 3:

We hospitalized those patients here you know yeah and and I'd had plenty of thoughts and, and that really scared me. And so once I said it out loud, I realized, oh wow, something needs to change. And so for me, how that looked I'm a pretty logical person, so every brain test I do, I'm like smack dab down the middle, I'm like 51 and 49% it's kind of bizarre, kind of bizarre. So for me, what made sense to me in that was okay, well, I need to see why I feel so overwhelmed, because I did. I was completely overwhelmed in every area. Basically and I just started to make a list of everything that made me feel overwhelmed I completely stopped the MLM. They had changed, the company had changed as well, and so I didn't feel comfortable even selling a lot of products anymore. Um, and they were pushing my team to act like Americans, or the Canadian market in New Zealand is not the same market as America.

Speaker 3:

So it just wasn't working and I kicked my team leader, the person above me, out of my group and stuff like that. That's hilarious. Stop it. Boundaries right, I am good at boundaries.

Speaker 2:

And I'm telling you your generation is. It annoys those of us in other generations, but you're very good at boundaries and that's a great thing. But I'll tell you, lydia, what you highlight something for me here that I had hoped to highlight in this conversation is that we need needed, as a generation above you, to do a better job of saying you know, teaching you and this is not a slight on anybody like we you don't know until you know, right? And so my generation, we just put our heads down and keep doing things, and so depression, anxiety, what, what is? That is what we think as as Gen Xers, and there's a fair amount of addiction and all the things to that end, and so so then we, then we have your generation where I don't think, not knowing that that was depression is unique to your generation, I don't think, but I do think that podcasts like this and conversations like this can help moms out there or not, moms who are having these feelings of depression, which is very hard to explain, right.

Speaker 2:

I mean, we can try to put our words to the darkness, that is, to the emptiness that it feels, to the dread that it feels, to the just complete, you know, nonsensical thoughts that this world would be better without you. You know nonsensical thoughts that this world would be better without you, and so the fact that you didn't recognize that is kind of the point of this podcast and people listening of any generation, right, that is not normal to feel that way, and if you're, if you're feeling in a way where you want to take your life first of all, please reach out. You can text or call 988. In America I'm not sure about New Zealand, but 988, lydia, do you guys have something like that there for suicide hotline?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, we definitely do have options.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and so please reach out to somebody and I didn't mean to interrupt you, I just felt like that was really important and so you talked to Kim and tell us a little bit more about, kind of, how you got on the other side of it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, as you were saying, like with the, the thing that kind of blew my mind was that. You know, I told you that originally I thought, oh, this is just a selfish thing If anybody could ever think of doing this yeah.

Speaker 3:

But this taught me about mental illness and about your brain is just not right.

Speaker 3:

About mental illness and about your brain is just not right.

Speaker 3:

And how you, how I, as a, as a Christian who I still had a close walk with God, I thought I how I could justify it, and it has given me so much grace toward those that deal with these issues and toward those that do absolutely horrific things in the name of trying to say love their children and maybe doing awful things and because in their mind and this is what I understand now in their mind it makes sense yeah, and it's horrifying, right, but it's real and this is something that people have to realize is okay, as you just said, like this isn't normal.

Speaker 3:

So you know that that has given me so much more grace toward others. Because if I, this person who grew up very privileged, very loved, very safe, up very privileged, very loved, very safe, If I, through this hormonal change, as a lot of people have, if I could feel like this and yet, ah, just, it blew my mind and it has forever changed me, because I know that every single person that I see can be in this situation on a ledge and they can look perfectly normal and maybe they just need somebody to to see them and to ask them that hard question or even just say hey, I'm kind of struggling today, how are you doing, you know, and just actually be real. But the the way that I got out of it. So I recognized what my issue was by writing down all the things that made me feel overwhelmed. So I just started making small changes.

Speaker 3:

I stopped the MLM thing, which probably freed up like a bazillion hours a week because it was ridiculous and I focused more on becoming a more wise mother. I focused more on getting sleep because clearly that was an issue. I did little changes in just even the household stuff to make me feel less overwhelmed. I honestly just went down the list and tweaked a little things. It was very small things that needed to change. That made a massive difference and I think for a lot of people obviously even to get to the logical point where you can even write it down is very difficult. But that's why I tell people that are struggling, if at all possible, whatever is bothering you. Write it down, get it out of your head. It's got all those bad pathways that it keeps building and there's science to that.

Speaker 2:

There's science to writing those things down. I always tell people, if you can this is actually I'm not a doctor yet, but almost um, this is actually scientifically accurate. First of all, writing it down is therapeutic, like you said, it rewires the brain, all the things. If you can write with your non-dominant hand, when you do that, it's even more effective Because what you're doing is you're telling your brain like we're okay here, right, and that's so.

Speaker 2:

It's so interesting to me that you have that wisdom to know what to do. Like you needed to start somewhere, like let me just write down it. I'm thinking when you're saying that, wow, I need to do that, and I don't know that I have a piece of paper big enough to write down all the things that are overwhelming me. And it's just this period of life where joy and and and and hard things are intermingling and good things are happening, but I'm exhausted, but it's so I do I agree with you on that is to write it down. You, we know that, that that wisdom is the principal thing and that we are promised wisdom if we ask it from God.

Speaker 2:

And so, if you are feeling that way, especially as a young mom, lydia. Now you have four boys, and so I'm sure there are still things that you have to do to take care of your mental health, especially given the loss of Zeke, which I want to talk about a little bit just to kind of get an update on how you are. And so, for those of you who don't know, lydia's original episode will be linked in the show notes. But Lydia and her husband, cam, lost their almost nine year old son to to a rare form of cancer, and so and Lydia tells that story in the description in the episode I'll put in the show notes. That being said, I want to know how you are doing, because it was hard over the holidays to watch, and I'm sure we all love that feature of Facebook where it gives us our memories, but you were sharing this time last year and this was more in December and kind of the raw emotions of all of that. So, first of all, how long has Zeke been gone about? What is it about?

Speaker 3:

18 months, we're coming up two years two years. So end of February is two years.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and so I loved how you were walking it out, especially over the holidays. Very honestly, very honestly, it was, it was. It was bittersweet to watch it play out. Tell us how you're doing.

Speaker 3:

I am honestly doing very well, probably 99% of the time, and in the times that I do grieve, it's the healthy grief.

Speaker 3:

And Cameron and I were talking about this just last night or the night before, as I sobbed because you know you have different triggers, you know you have different triggers and um, I went for the other day, was watching, oh, I saw some video in memories and it was of the boys playing on a hammock and um just being silly and just missing his mischievous smile and and it reminded me I was crying about that.

Speaker 3:

And then I was telling Cameron that that day we'd been at the park and so it must have been yesterday and we'd been at the park and Clay was who's eight now, and he looks just like Zeke, which is really tricky. He had been chasing Josiah and just as I watch that, just knowing there's that gap that comes up quite often and knowing that there was somebody else in between and isn't chasing him, that's more of his speed and more of his size, so that I was crying to Cameron about it. I didn't cry at the park. I think I did tear up, but I cry when I need to cry and which I think I'm so proud of you together, by the way because my generation, we would just keep keep going and not honoring that, one of the most poignant things I've ever heard.

Speaker 2:

You say um, both on. I don't know if you said this on your own podcast, by the way. I will put that in the show notes too, but it's chats with Lydia. It's hard to get used to. You said counting to four. Now this was talking about bittersweet. When you lost Zeke, you had a newborn and so you would have had five, and you also, I believe, have another baby in heaven. Tough stuff.

Speaker 2:

I think that is so healthy and, like you said, you were very fortunate to grow up in safe environments and you're fortunate to live in a safe environment. I also think that there's something to be said for where you live in the world, because in America, you know it's grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, and I think there is a different culture, and you've been in New Zealand since you were a teenager and I think there's a different culture too. But you cry when you need to and I think that that is so healthy and so powerful and I think you know, as I get ready to teach this lesson. On this question that Jesus asked do you want to get? Well, I think that your answer to that question has been in the affirmative yeah, I want to get well.

Speaker 3:

And I often talk about being a good steward of our pain, but I wonder what it looks like to you to be a good steward of about the different generations. I feel like because I to help facilitate other people's conversations that nobody has asked, and so, like when I lost the baby in 2021, I asked on my Facebook page I said, for those that have had miscarriages, what is something you wish you would have known before it happened? And that opened up the conversation for women of all ages and many women that were in the silent generation even to share their miscarriage for the first time. And that, to me, helps with my healing, because I get to give them a platform of healing through sharing my grief, and that's why I shared openly as we lost Zeke and we went through that trial and as the grief continues, because I I want them to see that there's still hope even amidst loss. Hope even amidst loss.

Speaker 3:

Um, I have people on my Facebook page that um and my friends and those in the groups that I'm in like cause I'm in cancer groups and stuff and and their lives are controlled by this grief and they're no better, If not, if not worse, than they were the day that it happened a decade ago and I grieve for them. I grieve for the loss of all of those years, and so I'm very thankful that I'm able to use our pain and to share with others, that there's hope and that our life is brief and we don't know how it's going to end. And so I had a friend today saying oh, I'm having my 40th this year and I'm trying not to be sad about it and I'm like you've had 40 years of making memories. What a blessing right.

Speaker 2:

Some people don't get to be 40.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's so exciting and God allowed us to have every day as he's life. Yeah, and love him well.

Speaker 2:

You got to love him his whole life.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I love that.

Speaker 3:

We got every day that was intended, yeah, and so I don't begrudge the days I didn't get.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 3:

And I can't. And in times when I see Clay chasing Josiah, I don't think, or I might think for a split second. Oh, zeke should have been there running. I do think that for a split second and then I correct it in my mind and I think no, we had Zeke the right amount of time and he is delighted, dude he's running on the streets of gold up there building Legos and all of the things.

Speaker 2:

You know, one of the things, as we near the end of our conversation, that I think that is so, so important. And I'm not going to say lacking in your generation, but I'm going to say lacking in your generation is this idea of gratitude and this idea of I'm not entitled to this beautiful life and therefore I'm angry at God because he took my son, or I'm angry at God because I was so depressed I wanted to take my own life. There is something so powerful I don't care how old you are to being grateful and and to say it. And, as John Piper says, say it until your heart believes it. Thank you, thank you, lord.

Speaker 2:

And I know in my own life, as I navigate all the things I was talking to somebody the other day and you know, when I, when I share my testimony which I will do in a couple weeks it's a bit overwhelming, it's a lot. When I, when I share my testimony which I will do in a couple weeks, it's a bit overwhelming, it's a lot right, like I could literally choose to share one part and it would be just as powerful as if I, if I, shared the whole thing. But I was talking to somebody at work and because things just pop out right. And somebody asked me the question hey, amy, do you have any kids? And I did, lydia. I'm sitting at a table with doctors and nurses and other social workers and other therapists and, and without even thinking about it, I said well, you know, I had a son, but he died of a drug overdose and you could have heard a pin drop in that room. And so later, as I was talking, one of my co workers said hey, I want you to know. I heard you when you said that I don't even know what to say. And to me I was just dropping, dropping the truth on him. And she said I just don't even know how you navigate something like that. And I said Well, first of all, it's not yours to navigate it. I wasn't. That sounds rude. I didn't mean it rude.

Speaker 2:

God didn't give you grace to walk through my pain, but I will tell you this too, in the spirit of do you want to get well? And being a good steward of the, the healing is, I wouldn't change a thing, not one, because I believe that those things has brought me to this place in my life and this has been true for a long time where I have this beautiful relationship with my savior, my god, because we've duked out he and I have duked it out already a long time ago about the hard things and he is my ever present help in trouble, my very best friend, and so I wouldn't take a single bit of it back. Do I have moments like you have, where you know the park, the park moments we can? We can air quote with that?

Speaker 2:

I've been having a lot of those recently about Kevin, my stepson who died, and just about that period of my life when I was married. I don't know why I've been having like some weird flashbacks to that time and I think on those times with gratitude and I find myself saying about my husband, my ex-husband John, I loved you. About my husband, my ex-husband John, I loved you, kevin, I miss you. And I wouldn't take it back for anything because, to your point, it has brought me to this place where I have this beautiful opportunity to relish in my healing.

Speaker 2:

Because I had a point where I felt like God said to me do you want to get well from these things? And I had a point where I had to answer that question and I think we all have a point where we have to answer that question. Do we want to get well? So I guess my final question to you is for those listening out there who are grieving without hope, those listening out there in dark rooms who are figuring out where they can take their kids before they hurt themselves. For those out there listening who are your age group and need somebody to speak to them in language that only your age group understands. I would love for you to take the mic and talk to those people for a minute about your hope and what you take anything back that the Lord has put in your path.

Speaker 3:

Friends, you're not alone. We all know that we all crave purpose and we're not enough just within ourselves and never will be. And we can try and, oh, we try. But we're designed to have a close relationship with our creator and when we realize that and actually just allow God to love us how he desires to love us, it doesn't mean you get a perfect life. It means that you have purpose, you have peace, you have joy. It means that your life isn't just about your own pleasure and it's just so much deeper and it fills that void. And maybe there are small changes that need to be made and maybe what you're dealing with is something that is hormonal, and maybe it's something that you just need some small tweaks, or maybe it's some more serious stuff and you need to be talking about it and getting it out. But there are people that love you and your life is valuable. Every day is a gift.

Speaker 3:

I don't begrudge God for taking Zeke. He was never mine to begin with. He was lent to me and I always believed that from day one, we have a choice to become a victim. Or we have a choice to become a victim, or we have a choice to grow. And my choice continues to be daily. I will grow, I will have gratitude. I'm not going to focus on being a victim and those that hurt me, because I can't control anybody else but myself and I can't control things outside of my control, like how long those that I love live. I've learned through many, many years of reading biographies and reading stories of people's hard and difficult moments that God is enough, and those stories, they paved the way. They paved the way for my strong faith and they paved the way for me, when I had to come up against this loss, to be able to trust God completely with every fiber of my being, whether I got to keep Zeke for longer, or whether I didn't or whether I didn't.

Speaker 3:

And God is. He's not just this, this unreachable, untouchable, imaginative thing. Look around you. You see people who love him with all of their heart and he changes their lives and he can change yours and give you that hope. And so I just encourage you and, as you talk to people of all different generations, just love them and if you don't know how to start a conversation, ask advice, because that breaks through barriers. Even if you're older and you talk to younger people, just ask them a bit of advice and say, hey, I'm struggling with this, have you found a solution? And that opened so many doors. And I've had older people say, hey, what would you suggest for this? And it's like so humbling, but it breaks that age gap and helps you to love well, so just keep loving and keep seeing and just know that you're very, very loved and very important and God has a purpose for your life.

Speaker 2:

Love it. Love it as you were speaking. You know it's the heart of this podcast is we love people but, moreover, we want them to know the perfect love of Jesus. I could only think of a passage of scripture as you were talking, because we've said so much here today, gratitude being so paramount, and I don't care how old you are, gratitude is a key to peace and happiness. But I was thinking as you were talking, because you said I trust the Lord.

Speaker 2:

I had somebody come to me the other day. I was at a meeting for church and she had been in some counseling and really had gotten through some really hard stuff. And she said you know, I think I'm good about the things that happened when I was younger. But she said but now she had lost her home in the hurricane. She said but now I just have a hard time trusting God. And I kind of looked at her and my eyes teared up a little bit, because I struggle with that sometimes too.

Speaker 2:

And it's podcasts like this and stories like yours and conversations like this that helped me remember one of the most basic scriptures in the history of the Bible, maybe one of the ones that I first memorized, and I love it because it's got such a logical theme to it, but Proverbs 3, 5, and 6, trust in the Lord with all of your heart and lean not into your own understanding, but in all of your ways, acknowledge him, and he will direct your path. And so, my friends, whatever you're navigating today, I don't care how old you are. I hope that you have gained something from this episode, but, particularly if you are of the millennial generation, we thank you for your openness. We thank you for your breaking barriers as it pertains to how we deal with some of this stuff, but, moreover, we pray for you and we are here for you as those of us who are older than you. So, guys, thank you so much for listening.

Speaker 2:

Lydia, thank you for being here. Her podcast can be found in my show notes. She is a mom of four, and so it gets recorded and published when it gets recorded and published. But Chats with Lydia I think they're Faith Chats with Lydia, yes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Faith Chats with Lydia.

Speaker 2:

I'll share in the show notes, but fantastic conversations. It's been cool to watch Lydia grow this ministry that she has, and so thank you for being here. Guys, we'll be back in two weeks. Who knows what generation we're going to come up with now or what podcast episodes coming in two weeks. Speaking of burning the candle at all the ends, we are doing all the things as we are walking through this doctoral journey. So thanks again, lydia, for being here. To the rest of you, you know what I'm going to say.

Speaker 1:

You are seen, you are known, you are heard, you are loved and you been so, so good. With every breath that I enable, oh, I will sing of the goodness of God. I love your voice. You were led me through the fire and in darkness night you were close like no other. I've known you as a father, I've known you as a father, I've known you as a friend, and I have lived in the goodness of God, and all my life you have been faithful and all my life you have been so, so good. Every breath that I am able, I will sing of the goodness of God. Yeah, your goodness is running after me. It's running after me. Your goodness is running after me. It's running after me.

Speaker 1:

When my life laid down, I surrender. Now it's running after me. My life laid down, I surrender. Now I give you everything. Your goodness is running after. It's running after me. Your goodness is running after. It's running out today. Your goodness running out. It's running out today.

Speaker 1:

When my life fades out, surrender. Now. I'll give you everything. Your goodness keeps running after me. And all my life you have been faith. You have been faithful, and all my life you have been so, so good With every breath that I am able. Oh, I'm going to sing of the goodness of God, I'm going to sing, I'm going sing, I'm gonna sing. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. And all my life you have been so, so good With every breath that I had. Now, oh, I'm gonna sing of the goodness of God, oh, I'm gonna sing of the goodness of God. Let me pray for all my days.

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Amy Watson

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